Interesting measurements on Carcano.

I have a 1939 Carcano cavalry carbine that I have struggled with primers being partially pushed out of the primer pockets, even with mild cast loads. I wound up neck sizing only, and after a few firings I measured my cases. From the base to the shoulder measures 1.65”, and the distance from base to the bottom of the neck is 1.80”. The case diagrams on Load Data shows that I should have 1.62” and 1.77”. Also, the case capacity is just a little higher than standard Carcano cases; 51 gr H2O vs 49 gr. I know this isn’t a lot, but they all match up almost identically to 6.5x54 M-S.

On Wikipedia (I know sometimes it isn’t always 100% reliable) it says that during WW-II some captured 6.5 Carcanos were converted to 6.5x54 M-S for use by the Greek army. I know it would be almost impossible to track down the history of this carbine to check that fact, but what do you guys think? Was it more likely a conversion, or just a head space issue? In either case, would I benefit any from buying a 6.5 x 54 sizing die to do my sizing?

Probably the best way to go would be to make a cerrosafe chamber cast and see exactly what you've got. Perhaps you can get better results by only neck sizing your fired cartridges. Very often that proves to be the practical solution to excess headspace.

It is possible that the rifle was converted, but once again, a chamber cast will tell you if that is so.

DG

I'm with DG on this, a cerrosafe chamber cast is probably best in this case.

Also inspect your lucking lugs and recesses.

Robert

Protruding primers are an indication of light loads as there is insufficient pressure to stretch the case back to the bolt face.
Page 115 of Lee's Modern reloading states and I quote,

"There is one primer indicator that is frequently confused as a sign of excessive pressure, when it is actually a sign of reduced pressure. A primer that protrudes, indicates the load is so light that the case was not stretched back to the breech face"

I would not be surprised if the case dimensions altered after firing, as it would have fire-formed to the chamber and as we know, military rifles frequently had generous chamber dimensions. so that they would continue to function when fouled.
The line drawings of cartridges in the Lee manual are full sized, so you can overlay a case and check the measurements.

Taking a chamber cast is always a good idea, but it is possible that taking the above into account, you might not have anything to be concerned about!
Hope this helps,
ukrifleman.

Thanks guys. I don't have any Cerrosafe, but I may pick up some paraffin on the way home and try with that for the time being. I've had some decent results with that before, but its not nearly as durable.

powdered sulfur melted in a pan and pored in chamber works good.

If by some chance it does turn out to be 6.5 x 54, I just bought a set of RCBS dies for that, hoping I could form shootable cases for my 6.5 x 53R Dutch. Didn't work, let me know if you need them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Watergoat

If by some chance it does turn out to be 6.5 x 54, I just bought a set of RCBS dies for that, hoping I could form shootable cases for my 6.5 x 53R Dutch. Didn't work, let me know if you need them.

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Thanks. I may take you up on that. I guess I need to do some checking.

From my reading (and photos I’ve seen) many Carcano’s were sold to the Greek forces after WWII as well during the civil war there. Many were rechambered to 6.5x54, and many of those have a trio of dots (in a triangle formation) or what appears to be a letter “E” stamped on the front receiver ring. A photo of the top of the receiver and barrel from the clip opening to the first inch or so of the barrel would help identify as such.
Search online for photos of “Greek partisan Carcano” and you’ll see what it looks like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Watergoat

If by some chance it does turn out to be 6.5 x 54, I just bought a set of RCBS dies for that, hoping I could form shootable cases for my 6.5 x 53R Dutch. Didn't work, let me know if you need them.

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I have “successfully” used a Lee 6.5x50 Arisaka die body with no expander pin to form 6.5x53R from .303 British, though the mouth then should be reamed as the brass will be too thick.

6.5x54 MS ammo is available ...........id warn against altering 303 rimmed cases to rimless ..........or indeed ,altering any rimmed case .

Why should'nt you alter rimmed cases ?

As others have mentioned, oversized chambers are common. I would try backing off on your sizing die just enough so a resized case chambers easily, and will hold a bullet.

What does the barrel look like?
Does factory ammo do the same thing?