I'm looking for data for Norma 205 rifle powder. Near as I can tell it is similar to RL19. I have any case size that is suitable for - 308, '06, belted mag, H&H...
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I'm looking for data for Norma 205 rifle powder. Near as I can tell it is similar to RL19. I have any case size that is suitable for - 308, '06, belted mag, H&H...
wolfwing, find a copy of the Speer #8 manual and it is full of data for N205. The cover has a man with a rifle on top of a stagecoach. N205 was the super powder of its day and produced some really great velocities but it was hard to duplicate lot to lot consistency. It was replaced by Norma MRP which was pretty good but it never reached the cult status that N205 did. I now cringe to think what some of the pressures were that were loaded with 205. If you have some, be sure to start low. Sorry for the long winded post but you conjured up some fond memories! Murf205
Yeah, I have 1 can and didn't know what to do with it. I have about 5 Speer books, hopefully one is a #8.
It made a 7x57 haul hiney with a 160gr Nosler partition. A friend of mine carried one to Africa and mashed everything in sight with one shot. The speeds she was getting was way above any other powder. Of course she was an excellent shot so it's kinda like my by line.
Norma 205 was recalled and no longer made because it was a proven dangerous powder. One of the first actual SEE [or pressure excursion if PC is your bag] I was directly involved with involved Norma 205 under a 168 MK in a new target 280 Remington rifle. The load proved to be safe when worked up but not the next day when zeroing at range.
I recommend against it's use, especially in a "reduced" loading.
Wow! that gives me something to think about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Gibson
What are you referring to by "PC"? Was the load worked up in the lab and had temp changes on the range? If the temp variances are the culprit, the load was not compatible or too hot to start with. I am not disputing the results you had with it, I am just curious. As a side note, I had similar problems with W-W 785.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Gibson
"PC" refers to "political correct". SEE was the original term used by the industry and writers for the problem. However, as of the last couple years some are referring to it as "high pressure excursion". Simply semantics as the results are the same.
The load was worked up to following recommended "start low and work up in 1/2 gr increments" as mentioned by all the manuals. The use of Norma 205 in the 280 Remington was recommended by a major gun writer who was very fond of the 280 Remington at the time (Mid '70s). There was absolutely no sign of any pressure via the usual methods of the time [primer flatness, case head expansion, web expansion or hard bolt lift] as recommended by all the reloading manuals of the day. The temperatures were in the high 50s - low 70s during the load development (in NE Oregon).
BTW; Ammunition manufactures and reloading data manual producers (if they actually test the loads published; one major manual producer doesn't) do not have "labs". They have load or "product" development rooms or "test facilities" with the same kinds of reloading equipment you, I and everyone else uses. Some may have a range attached for test firing just as some of us do but some transport the test loads to a range (indoor and/or outdoor) for testing. Some use CUP/LUP pressure test guns, some use piezo-transducer test guns, some use strain gauge test guns or a combination of all. There they develop loads using bullets, cases, powders and primers just as we do. Before the advent of piezo-transducers and strain gauge testing loads were developed using the same "start low, work up" method we us (or at least should use) and then the "max load" was usually pressure tested. Many Manual "max" loads were not pressure tested by any means back then and most manuals did not list any pressures of any loads. Most manuals today do not list the pressures of the loads listed either.
Regardless of whether you think the loading myself and the rifle owner did was correct or not the fact remains Norma 205 was recalled and pulled off the market because of many SEE incidents.
Thanks Larry. Like I said in my original post, " I now cringe to to think what some of the pressures were".In retrospect, if N205 were as good as it seemed back in the 70's, it would still be with us. As far as the "PC", I've never been very good at that.
I'm not very PC either, but when Larry Gibson saysI'm not going to use it.Quote:
I recommend against it's use
Robert