Has anyone compared velocity differences of PC vs Lubed?
I have heard Hi-Tek takes a lil more powder to achieve the same velocity...is PC the same?
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Has anyone compared velocity differences of PC vs Lubed?
I have heard Hi-Tek takes a lil more powder to achieve the same velocity...is PC the same?
In my limited testing I'm getting a bit more velocity with the powder coats.
Dick
Besides, Dick, Lee Martin (Single-Actions) reports the same, a slight increase.:)
Thanks Guys. I just coated my first boolits on Saturday and will be loading them up soon. I'm going to drop my charge alittle bit and see how that goes. Someone had a chrono at the range last week and let me shoot a few of my 9mm loads over it. The 45/45/10 lubed 130gr 9mm bullets hit 990 with 4.3 of Unique and the 4.4 was around 1025. All I need to do is hit 965+ to make minor PF loads for IDPA/USPSA. I'll probably go with like 4.3 for the PC'ed ones to give myself some cushion.
I've only compared one powdercoat to one lube: Sherwin Williams Mirror Black vs. White Label Lube Carnauba Red.
I had almost exactly a 20 fps loss in velocity with PC, but Carnauba Red is some DARN GOOD LUBE!!!
I wonder if you added lube to your powder coated bullet would you get those 20fps back?
It would be interesting to do as an experiment, but it also defeats the purpose (to me, anyway) of powdercoating. I might try it out, as there are others here on the forum lubing PC bullets with great success.
Funny this comes up. Yesterday I was thinking how Ben likes to lubrisize and then tumble lube. It crossed my mind to wonder if PC, then lube, then tumble might be something to consider in the quest for high velocity.
Hmm so it seems like a mixed bag in regards to velocity.
Guess I will have to try someone's chrono again with PC.
I just shot my first 100 of these today...I'm sold on the process.
I haven't tried my PC boolits over the Crony...yet....But the amount of difference that we're talking about here is statistically insignificant. On some other load development, I've seen Standard Deviations well beyond 20-50fps out of my 4" K-Frame.
So any increase in velocity could be related to any number of factors such as humidity, different lots of powder (for sure), different lots of primers, different case manufactures, it goes on...
A few extra FPS, if it's real, great. But it's tough to tell...
the only same day side by side comparison I did was with the 300 AAC blackout. I loaded the Lee C312-155 2R ESPCd with HF Flat Black, sized to .311, and loaded with IMR 4227. I started at 14 grains for 1800 fps, 14.5 for 1900 fps, 15 for 2000 fps, and 15.5 for 2100 fps. I ran out of PCd boolits so I ran 10 more lubed with 50/50 Lee Alox/Mineral Spirits using 2 light coats. 15.5 with the 50/50 gave me 2300 fps.
I know those numbers don't match up with anything I've read. BTW, this was tested at 6000 feet above sea level. I've done some more testing with the 14 grain load and ESPC at 100 feet above sea level and only reached 1675 fps. As an example, Sierra lists for jacketed, (I know, apples to oranges), 16 to 17.5 grains of IMR 4227 for 1800 to 2100 fps. I reference that load data just to point out that 14 to 15.5 shouldn't be anywhere near max. With the loads tested, I marked the load on each case with a Sharpie so I could compare cases and primers after firing. I could not tell the difference between the starting or ending loads.
I will repeat the above tests at closer to sea level, including some lubed with the 50/50. I've never really messed with 50/50 until recently. I will likely stick with the ESPC because it smokes less and leaves the bore very shiny. The bore after the 50/50 loads cleaned up with one dry patch and not a hint of leading.
I suppose the higher velocity of the 50/50 boolits has some value but it did smoke some. I may have to try some ESPC boolits with one light coat of 50/50 just to see what it does but only as a 'gee whiz' test. I like the performance of the 14 grain load and I like the 'less smoke' of the PCd boolits. I will adjust the load until I find the sweet spot but for now it kills tin cans adequately.
My experience is with a G19 (storm lake barrel) using HF red with the DT method in 2 load recipes as I have used in the past ...I picked up a few fps (20-25 fps) in velocity and slightly better accuracy in both loads from 10yards out to 25 yrds from a rest and free style.
I tried plain lubed, and PCed, and PCed with lube, and PC with teflon added. There was not a big enough difference in velocity that I could say without a doubt, that anyone of the choices was the reason for the difference. In other words the spread in velocity was the same as I usually get when testing just one load.
Here I go, again.
For powder coating to take, the metal must be clean, no oil or grease. The coating will just slip away.
I don't load slow pistol rounds with powder coated bullets. I don't see the use. With that said.
I have found that some slow burning powders, 2400, will require more powder to get going to the same or greater velocities. I think this is because the powder need more pressure to burn well and the polyester coating is so slick. I see the same when comparing 'NO' crimp to my 'Medium' crimp. This is in my 44 Mag revolver. Others may well be different.
Now to compare apples to bananas.
Chambering - 300 AAC Blackout
Powder used Little'Gun
First bullet - 110 grain V-Max - powder charge of 18.3 grains - CCI primers - Nice comfortable loading, full function (accurate) - velocity is an average of 2204 FPS
Second bullet - 130 grain cut down LEE C312-155-2R flat base coated with PBTP polyester, sized to .3105 inches - powder charge 17.5 grains - CCI primers - Nice comfortable loading, full function (accurate) - velocity is an average of 2150 FPS
I know, apples to bananas.
20 grains more bullet, going 50ish feet per second slower, point 8 grains less powder.
I'll let you interpreter this as you like.
I can' t tell one from the other on target and finding V-Max bullets is a chore and costly. I cast and coat under my car port with free to me scrap lead. You do the math.
Enjoy,
OSOK
Mine were trickle charged and loaded back-to-back, with the dies in the exact same setting, shot and tested back-to-back.Quote:
Originally Posted by DisinterestedThirdParty
From my post on another forum:
Quote:
Ballisti-Cast 931 125 grain RN
1.110"
5.0 grains Ramshot Silhouette
Speer once fired nickel plated brass
CCI 500 SPP
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...151044_260.jpg
The cartridge on the left has the bullet powdercoated with Sherwin Williams Mirror Black #2, the cartridge on the right has the bullet lubricated with White Label Lube's Carnauba Red. I loaded 10 rounds of each. Normally, I can load this bullet to 1.125", but the dimensional difference in coatings required a shorter OAL. To keep the tests as apples to apples as I could, I loaded both to the same reduced OAL.
I packed up my wife's Duo Tone 75B for the Duo Tone bullet test and headed to the farm. It seemed like the most appropriate firearm in the stable for this test.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...152733_276.jpg
Chrono Results
Standard Lube
Avg 1,145 fps
SD 11.6 fps
ES 37 fps
Powdercoat
Avg 1,125 fps
SD 9.0 fps
ES 34 fps
So the Powdercoat is losing 20 fps. SD and ES are on par with standard lube (maybe a little better even).
I had been wondering about this, so I did a test myself.
357 magnum Rossi 92, using Lyman 358429 boolits and 7.5 grains of Alliant Unique.
plain lead with lube..........................1344 fps....22.7sd
powder coated lead..........................1328 fps....7.0sd
powder coated lead AND lubed..........1337 fps ....14.7sd
So, as I see it, there is NO difference at all. 26 fps difference from high to low is well within the range of what one would expect from ANY load.