7.62x54R factory powder

I am wanting to shoot in military bolt-gun matches at th club I recently joined. To that end, I have done some work on the Mosin-Nagant that I have, smoothing the trigger, etc.

I want to shoot, for practice, some of the surplus ammo I have. I have two crates of surplus that I purchased back when they were less expensive (and available). One of those crates is a 1951 Russian (plant #60) light ball, copper-washed steel case, lead core steel-jacket.

I pulled the bullets from 10, weighed the powder. It averaged 49.5gr. I dropped the charge 15%, and re-assembled the rounds with 42gr.

I shot those ten rounds over the chrony, got 2454 fps avg, with a spread of 32 fps, and a deviation of 15.8 fps. Those numbers tell me I am getting good ignition, no problems there.

I have loaded up 5 more, to shoot today, dropping the charge another 2gr, for a 40gr charge. This is approx a 20% reduction from the initial charge. I want to have practice rounds, and I already have this ammo, so I want to make it shoot without beating me up. I don't need 2900 fps to kill paper.

My questions -

This powder looks for all the world like IMR4895. Looking at my manuals, Lyman #48 specifically, it is giving me velocities in line with a charge of IMR4895. I do realize that the 1950's Russian Army did not contract out its powder manufacturing, and I do not have IMR4895, or a cannister grade anything. But, if it walks like a duck...

That being said, Hodgdon tells me that IMR4895 cannot be reduced "too much" (unlike H4895), because one will run into ignition problems, resulting in possible problems too horrible to contemplate. Nothing specific on what "too much" is.

At what point should I consider a Dacron filler ? The 40gr charge still fills a good portion of the case, perhaps 80% (just eyeballing it). I've seen some on here using a 20-ish grain charge of IMR4895 with cast and a dacron filler, to get very good results.

Comments ?

I do not recommend the use of a Dacron filler with jacketed bullets, especially steel jacketed bullets.

Chronograph a 20 shot test (or 2 ten shot tests) of the 20% reduction. Watch for any anomaly of deviation of the ES such as one or two shots being way lower or higher than the rest.

Larry, I appreciate your commenting. It was one of your posts that had the lighter cast load, to which I referenced. At least, I think so.

Although I have been reloading for many years, rifle is new to me. I am trying to transition from reloader to handloader, using decades of handgun experience.

I'll go ahead and load up more of this 40gr load, and shoot them. We'll see what happens.

Wow. That's all I can say.

I loaded up more of the 40gr load referenced earlier, and shot them over the chrony this afternoon. Two 10-shot strings. I got a couple errors on the first string, but no squibs, and no wildly different numbers

String 2 - 10 shots recorded
Avg Vel - 2327 fps
Deviation- 46.7 fps
Spread - 136 fps

String 1 - 8 shots recorded
Avg vel - 2250 fps
Std Dev - 45.6 fps
spread - 151 fps

The difference in numbers from the 42gr load, to this 40gr load are deceiving. The numbers say the 42gr load should shoot better, but it doesn't.

I tried to load a pic, for some reason it won't.

The difference in accuracy is astonishing. With the 40gr load, I am getting MUCH better groups. Admittedly, I am shooting at only 25yds, really just checking velocity, but it's like shooting a different rifle. With the 42gr load, I was getting 6" 5-shot "groups" at 25yds. With the 40gr load, I cut that by more than half.

The first string, I walked up to see how bad it was, I shot a 2.75" grp. Second string was 1.75" with a flyer, 1.5" without.

Time to pulldown the rest of the rounds, and load em up at 40gr. And back up to 50 yds.

It's kinda outside what you are looking for, but for a practice load that won't kill your shoulder, you could always give Ed Harris' "The Load" a try after your tests with reducing the powder on the steel cases. 13 grains Red Dot. It shoots pretty well in my Mosin, nice light load, easy to shoot. Just a thought. I don't have a chronograph so I don't know the velocity of the rounds.

Bareen, I actually did load up and shoot The Load from my Mosin. I used 13gr Promo, and a 150gr Hornady jacketed .311 spire point from the 80s.

I chrono'd 1604 avg fps over 10 rounds. It shot easy enough, but it really isn't what I am looking for right now.

OK, I'll take one for the team.......given the O/P's stated goals of target work and decreased recoil, why not try cast bullets? My example in 7.62 x 54R is a Romanian M-44 carbine, and it dotes upon the Lee #312-185 (sized @ .312") atop 16.0 grains of Alliant 2400. I have put it on paper at 50 and 100 yards; at 100 I set the rear sight for 300 yards and bullets go where the sights look, and usually print 5-shotters in the 2.00"-2.25" class. It is a fun little truck rifle, and it might go to NCBS with me for the milsurp match this year. Or maybe I will totally lose my mind and try the long-range (400 yard) iron clanger contest, too. I really like the little spazzy bolter.

The 7.62 x 54R is a caliber that sneaks up on folks. Kinda prehistoric, having a screwy-ancient rim configuration and designed in a country that drives screws with hammers when the Five-Year Plan period is approaching a deadline--but the caliber is powerful and accurate as hell in a good rifle. It and its platform from 1891 were shooting 154 grain spitzers at 2900 FPS while the USA was messing around with 30 U.S. Krags that pushed 220 grain RN slugs barely 2000 FPS and with a rainbow trajectory from the longer rifle barrels. When the US adopted the 30-06, throughout its service life it pushed a 150-152 grain bullet 2700-2800 FPS, and in a Garand action you had better keep it in that ballpark AND use 50.0 grains of IMR-4895 in GI cases to do so. With that last remark we arrive at the point I circuitously drove toward--that IMR 4895 is a great powder for duplicating service rifle loadings in a lot of milsurp calibers. I suspect that the Russian propellant you are doing the refills with is a "kissing cousin" to our 4895s that folks have used to good effect in war, in the hunting fields, and on target ranges since the stuff was developed.

O/P here.

My goal is to shoot cast from this 91/30, at the local club matches.

I don't yet have a mold for this rifle, and in the interim I am using what I have, for practice. I re-charged the remainder of the 300 round tin I had opened, and am using it to get used to the rifle. That leaves another 300 round tin untouched. I may sell it also.

The trigger on this pig is very long, longer than anything I've shot before. There is also some grit at the end of the travel. I've done some trigger work, and smoothed it a great deal, but there is still some work to be done.

I went to the Tulsa Wanenmacher show last week, and sold one of the crates of ammo, which will give me some money to use for a mold, among other things.

It's funny, when I first purchased this rifle, I wasn't all that enamored with it. I purchased it mostly because it was cheap, and I was apparently the only person left without one. It languished in the safe for 6 years without being fired.
Now, I've fired a total of 45 rounds from it. I've got it down to 3" groups at 50 yds, with modified surplus ammo. If I can get used to the trigger, I think I can do much better, especially after I start casting for it. Then, I can find a good load.

I'm starting to warm up to this anachronism.

I've only tried one cast bullet in my mosin, the lee 312-155-2R. I powder coat them and size them and size them to .314 because of my mosin being oversized at .313


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By all means to try and shoot cast bullets in the ole girl I went down the same path as you when I first started into this cast bullet addiction . I had a Finn M39 i shot in reduced range HP matches . Hated the recoil of surplus ball and the price of reloading jacketed billets . As things progressed I was gifted a Lee 155 mold also bought the 185 for it I ended up pulling down all that CZ and Albanian ball ammo I had selling the bullets and using the powder for reduced cast loads and also working up loads for othe calibers . Like you say it is indeed similar to 4895 . I used about 3 lb of that Albanian powder in the 223 for my 200 yd offhand ammo for a couple seasons in Highpower .
Anyways back to cast bullets get a mould and start into it easier on the ears shoulder and wallet and accuracy can equal or most of the time best any of the surplus . Also if you do pull down that surplus you can use those primed cases for cast along with the powder

I use a 314299 sized to 312. If your bore is bigger ordering a 316299 is possible from one of our handful of good mold makers here. Mine is a NOE. Iirc they use a different number but it is a 299 clone.

O/P here again. I forgot about this thread, and since it's been dredged up, I'll update it.

I slugged the bore on my Mosin, came up with .315. I ordered a NOE 316-203-RN, which is his version of the 314299, but with a larger diameter.

I'm sizing to .316, and loading it with 28.5gr of IMR 4895, with a tuft of dacron. That gets about 1725 fps.

I've been shooting at the clubs' monthly Military Bolt-action match, and having a ball. I'm not very good yet, I'm consistently in the lower half of the standings. Having shot only 3 matches, I have much room for improvement.

The best 10-shot group I've fired so far is 2.75", at 100 yds.
Highest 10-shot score so far is 95-2.

I have fallen off into the rabbit hole, playing with seating depth and contemplating the need for neck turning.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bookworm

O/P here again. I forgot about this thread, and since it's been dredged up, I'll update it.

I slugged the bore on my Mosin, came up with .315. I ordered a NOE 316-203-RN, which is his version of the 314299, but with a larger diameter.

I'm sizing to .316, and loading it with 28.5gr of IMR 4895, with a tuft of dacron. That gets about 1725 fps.

I've been shooting at the clubs' monthly Military Bolt-action match, and having a ball. I'm not very good yet, I'm consistently in the lower half of the standings. Having shot only 3 matches, I have much room for improvement.

The best 10-shot group I've fired so far is 2.75", at 100 yds.
Highest 10-shot score so far is 95-2.

I have fallen off into the rabbit hole, playing with seating depth and contemplating the need for neck turning.....

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LOL! Welcome to the club!

Best load so far in my Romanian carbine has been with the Lee #C312-185 sized at .314" (throat is .3135", grooves are .313") atop 16.0 grains of Alliant 2400. Boxer-primed "PPU" brass, CCI 200 primers. Gives all-day recoil and report, decent accuracy given its service sights.

The best 10-shot group I've fired so far is 2.75", at 100 yds.
Highest 10-shot score so far is 95-2.

Your load is an excellent one......with issue sights that is very good shooting!

welcome to the rabbit hole.........:drinks: