Poor Man's Express revisited

Well, I got tired of Hi-Jacking, so I started my own thread.
Still a work in progress.Attachment 324429

Cool - details?

Back many years there was a large croc out on the Amazon that started on children. 12 gauge slugs would not penetrate the neck armor at less than 3 feet.
On our time north back around 1990 got to work with Round ball. Cast of WW +2% tin it will go through (penetrate) 3x+ what slugs will go.
All that was done with our 12 gauge FoxB double with 30" barrels. Reamed both chokes to .003 constriction. 1550 fps with 95 grains 3F Goex.
Added a home made rear sight and used the bead on the front. Prints both barrels 4 inches apart at 50 yards.
Somewhere here in the "Old Posts" is the whole right up. That is our bear gun. Or Express is you desire that name.
Still works rather well popping crows out to 40 yards.

This is an old gun I found in a second-floor catch-all junk room we called "The Attic", not an attic but that is what my mom called it.
I don't know who it belonged to, perhaps one of my grandparents or my mom's half-brother. As a teen I loaded up shells with black powder and shot, I may have used scrap cloth, old wads or whatever I could find. The loadings were whatever I could cram into the shells. I once shot a skunk in the chicken yard, I let him have both barrels at once, he was about 6 or 7 feet from the coop and it picked him up and slammed him against the coop, quite dead. I am not wanting to shoot it as is as the barrels have a fair amount of pitting. I'm sure a bit of the pitting was my fault, can't remember, but being an adolescent kid at the time it makes sense.
Anyway, that is the history of this old Damascus shotgun as much as I know of it. It once had a neat case made of canvass and leather, but that fell apart many years ago from dry rot.
This will be a double .45-70 Gov caliber. Plan on using Trapdoor or lower loads in it.
I will be posting pictures and explanations on conversion in the near future.

Here are a few pix of my project.Attachment 324524Attachment 324525Attachment 324526Attachment 324527Attachment 324528

missionary5155, I loved the croc story about your croc/bear gun, love to see pictures of it.
I am really partial to SxS doubles although never much of a shotgun guy.
I have always liked the side hammer guns the best.
I just bought a CZ-USA side hammer shotgun that I haven't even received yet, just got the notice it was delivered to my FFL and awaiting the call from them.
Pretty excited, a totally modern shotgun with 3-inch chambers and screw in choke tubes, but with side hammers!

It looks good and tight for an old gun.
Who made it?


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It is a New Baker, and it is solid, when closed it has no play to it whatsoever.
I also have an old T Dumoulin & Co. 16-gauge hammer double I bought a couple years ago from a pawn shop I used to do business with.
The 16-gauge is loose as a goose, but I like the old hammer guns, so I bought it.
I really miss that pawn shop, he decided to close the doors a few months ago.

So if I'm following your project explanation correctly, you're planning to do a 45-70 conversion on this?

As a comment regarding your loose 16 ga. gun, I have an 1881 made W&C Scott & Son 10 ga. side by that is very loose so took it to a gunsmith to see what he could do and he said with laser welding the easiest is to build up the worn face of the hook then re-joint to put the barrels back on face and tight. Laser welding is far easier and cheaper than the usual methods for re-jointing. He said he can do it for about $200 and it will be tight as when new.

I am looking forward to your range results with those .45-70 inserts in place and shimmed in the 12 ga.!

Longbow

Yes, it is .45-70, I need to load up a bunch of shells and get out to the range with it.
As far as the old 16, I will just TIG up the worn area and save myself two hundred dollars.

I don't know about TIG welding except that I don't have a TIG welder and I know I don't have the skill to put a thin layer on.

The gunsmith said he could use either bronze or steel. The bronze is easier to do but wouldn't wear as long as steel. He said laser welding was the best way to go but TIG would probably work as well. As long as you can build up then remove to refit the hook to the pin you should be good to go.

The old timey methods were apparently to either machine out the hook then replace the wear face with a slightly undersize "shell" which would be filed to suit the hinge pin to rejoin the barrels and receiver or the hinge pin would be removed and replaced with a larger diameter pin then the hook fitted to the new larger pin. In my case the hinge pin ends are engraved so to replace it would either leave plain ends or require pricey engraving to match the receiver.

If the ends of your hinge pin are plain it is likely cheapest and easiest to make a new pin in a larger diameter then ream the receiver to suit, press the pin then fit the hook to the new pin. Less filing and fitting that way I think.

I like the old hammer guns too!

Longbow

I am not too worried about the 16 at this point, it's on the back burner.
I just picked up my new shotgun.
A CZ Hammer Classic double barrel 12-gauge.
30-inch chrome barrels with a set of 5 chokes, 3-inch chambers, case hardened receiver and butt plate.
A modest amount of decorative scroll type engraving, the most elegant gun I own.
It will shoot any modern 12-gauge shells, for me it is the perfect shotgun.
I didn't know these existed or I would have had one a long time ago.
It was about twice the price of a Stoeger coach gun, but I think it was worth it, still a lot cheaper than a lot of doubles.

I finally made it to the range today.
Test fired the old double with the Chaszel inserts with a couple different loadings.
The gun is a lot of fun to shoot and heavy enough to absorb a lot of the recoil, but still gives a hefty enough push to let you know you are shooting something.
I cut my range session short due to rain starting.
I am delighted that the gun is working out for this.

Following this post intently. Small hijack here, does anyone know of a place that still makes 16 gauge insert for a rifle caliber,,,really want a 38-55.

You might call these guys

https://www.gunadapters.com/

https://gunadapter.com/

Thanks Skipper but 12 and 20 only.

I would turn down a barrel to fit.
Seems not much out there for 16 gauge.
Most adapters are not too long either, I was delighted to find 24-inch adaptors.