Clays vs Clay Dot

I recently ran out of Clays and went shopping for some more. My local reloading supply store was out of Clays but did have Clay Dot so I thought what the heck, I'll try it. I had read about it but had not had a chance to compare it.

According to Alliants website:
Designed for competition shooters, Clay Dot™ is functionally and technically identical to competitive shotshell powders but at a reduced price. This American-made powder meters the same through reloading press powder bushings and functions with the exact same powder charge weights to achieve equal velocities and pressures. No need to change bushings or load data.

Remarks:
Designed to duplicate the performance of Hodgdon® Clays™ at an economical price.


I have also read that Clay Dot is slightly denser than Clays. I thought I'd do some tests and see how much they differed. I set up my Ponsness-Warren 375 Duo-Matic and dropped charges of each powder using all of my different powder bushings. I used an electronic scale and a minimum of 5 throws per bushing to get an average. Here is what I found:

Bushing Clays Clay Dot

F 13.7 13.73
G 15.0 15.23
J 17.74 17.89
K 18.5 18.78
L 19.0 19.34
M 20.0 20.48
N 21.4 21.64
P 22.1 22.5

Conclusion; Clay Dot IS slightly more dense than Clays but not enough to make much difference in listed shotshell loads.

I am planning on loading some pistol cartridges using Clay Dot loaded with Clays published data. I will start low and see how it performs and being very careful to watch for signs of pressure. In my opinion Alliant is doing themselves a disservice by not investing the time and money to publish load data for anything other than shotshells with Clay Dot. :popcorn:

What about cleanliness? Does it seem to burn as clean as clays in handgun cartridge as well?
I am really debating buying clay dot but as it only comes in 8lb jugs I really hope I like it.
Any help is appreciated.

I bought 42 pounds of universal clays and clays($100 for ALL of it!) I have loaded tons of pistol rounds with universal and although sometimes I get a bit of unburned flakes it really burns clean and accuracy has been very good. Good powder.

Whats difference between these two? Right one is purple color and left one is brown flakes.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/...A64B9507D0.jpg

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Originally Posted by gunoil

Whats difference between these two? Right one is purple color and left one is brown flakes.

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Clays is the faster of the 2
It is close to WW231 in speed
Universal Clays is closer to Unique in speed

I used Universal Clays in the 20 gau for a while , when I was able to get it cheap

Both powders work well for me
Both powders are a lot cleaner if you keep the pressure up

John

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Originally Posted by gunoil

Whats difference between these two? Right one is purple color and left one is brown flakes.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/...A64B9507D0.jpg

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Totally, totally different burning rates!!!! Universal can be equated to unique for burning speed. Clays can be equated to bullseye. I really like both powders (especially Clays) but Hodgdon could have really done a better job naming these powders.

Unless I'm mistaken, Dean is talking about an Alliant powder http://www.alliantpowder.com/product.../clay_dot.aspx and Hodgdon Clays.

Old Alliant data was published for pistol loads of the original "Dot" powders.

Dean, let us know how the Alliant powder compares with the Hodgdon.

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Originally Posted by BeeMan

Unless I'm mistaken, Dean is talking about an Alliant powder http://www.alliantpowder.com/product.../clay_dot.aspx and Hodgdon Clays.

Old Alliant data was published for pistol loads of the original "Dot" powders.

Dean, let us know how the Alliant powder compares with the Hodgdon.

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Yes, and I was actually asking about clay dot the Alliant version of clays.
I am very thankful of the feedback so far but would really like to hear something about Clay Dot.

Never tried "Clay Dot" but I do love "Clays" in my 45 ACP.

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Originally Posted by OregonCaster

Never tried "Clay Dot" but I do love "Clays" in my 45 ACP.

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Same here. I wanted a light 45 load and found it in Clays. I was also extremely acurrate for a light load.

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Originally Posted by 45fisher

Same here. I wanted a light 45 load and found it in Clays. I was also extremely acurrate for a light load.

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My Sig P220 with 3.7-3.8 grains of "Clays" is just about good as it gets.

I've done some reloading with Clay Dot that was left over from my trapshooting.
3.3 gr's Claydot, 200 lswc, cci 300 primer Avg velocity thru my chron 719 fps.
I also show 3.8 gr with a 185 lswc at 825 fps.

I've loaded 2.2-2.5 gr's Claydot in the .38 special with a flush seated 148 gr hbwc.
fired in a model 66 6" I got 711 fps with 2.2 and 800 fps with 2.5

but, I found leading in my cylinder throats which wasn't a problem in the .357 mag cylinder, but, when 2.5 gr's was fired in the M-14 s&w severe leading in the forcing cone and barrel throat was present.

I suspect melting of the base of the bullet.

I have no data on this issue with the 2.2. load...

but, I've once again become happy with bullseye in my .38...

Jim

Actually Clays is more close to Red Dot than Bullseye. For most low recoil loads of Red Dot, you can get almost the same performance with Clays. Clays does generate more pressure and less velocity than Red Dot which is good for some applications like 3/4 oz 12 gauge target loads. I went through 10# of Clays last season and really liked it. This year I couldn't find any Clays so I had to settle for Red Dot which needs about 1 grain more per load for my shotshells to burn cleanly.

To the OP. Clay Dot is supposed to be almost interchangeable with Clays but it does generate a slightly lower max average pressure in comparable shotshell loads. For low recoil handgun loads, I'll bet you can use the same data for Clays and not notice any difference in your chrony using Clay Dot.

I apologize to everyone for not advancing this project. Between winter weather, work and family obligations I just have not had time to sit down and test some loads with both powders. I still plan to do so and will post my results here when I can find the time to get it done. If anyone else has more info to add feel free to go ahead and add it here.

The funny thing is, I was looking to do a direct comparison between Hodgdon Clays and Alliant Clay Dot.. and found something interesting on Alliant's web site.. Where you look up the different "Products", Under Clay Dot, it say specifically "*Not for use in Metallic cartridges" so that's sort of making me think... HMMMMMMmmmmmm.... I was going to try light 38 and 40 cal loads in a 686 and a 610.. and maybe in a Widebody Para shooting Minor 40 cal.. since Hodgdon Clays is such a great powder for powder puff minor loads in 40 cal...

Yikes, I didn't know I brought back a necro-post.. lol. :)