Hey guys - can I use loading data from the .45-70 for antique rifles in the Uberti 1876 lever gun? Have any of you done it? And used fillers...?
Printable View
Hey guys - can I use loading data from the .45-70 for antique rifles in the Uberti 1876 lever gun? Have any of you done it? And used fillers...?
Guy
I asked the same question ages ago and got recommendations to do so - start with trapdoor loads was the story
Being the suspicious nature that I am --- I decided to check things first
There are two questions
1) its generally accepted that straight cases (45/70 is one) generate LESS pressure for a given velocity / boolit weight than bottle necks - yes? - by my definition the 45/75 is bottleneck rather than straight wall - yes?
2) lets test the case capacity - I did this fully expecting the 45/75 to hold more powder than a 45/70 - yes? .......errrr NO!!! .....at my house the opposite is the answer - my 45/75 cases held about ten grains LESS than 45/70 .............
??????? 45/70 winchester cases fired and not resized (I dont resize anything that will chamber comdfortably without)
45/75 cases are made from 348 winchester brass and the necks are cut shorter than standard to match the crimp groove on my boolit......however BOTH would be loaded with the boolit at the same depth in the case for use in a lever gun ?
So short answer for me ..... smaller case capacity ..... bottleneck case .... fragile action (supposedly) = keep shootin black powder init
If ya gonna use smokeyless - pay attention - If you blow a 76 theres a good chance your left hand or at least some of those fingers goes with it .
Assumptions (transposing information) in the reloading business is a recipe for problems
Here is lots of reading for ya. http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/ind...c,52208.0.html
http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/ind...oard,89.0.html
Good afternoon
When we bought our Chaparral 50-95 started with F and 3F Goex (have a bunch) and a 350 grainer as that is what I wanted to shoot in it.
So started with F and one cereal box wad on top. Soon moved to 3F with that 350 grainer and fired 7 round groups at 50 yards. At 1465 FPS that 350 was making nice tight cloverleafs. At 100 yards same load was at 2" or some under. This was my accuracy load.
Started then with 5477 and the same bullet. Adding one grain at a time. When velocity reached that 1465 fps the groups were running 2 1/4 " at 100 yards.
This is not the only BR Lever Rifle system I have found to act in this way. Use BP (I like 3F due to case capacity differences) to find the "accuracy load" then match that FPS with smokeless. Not to far either up or down FPS is where that smokeless load works best. Plus We have never strained a 1873 or 1876 rifle... original or repro.
Mike in Peru
Here's what I did: the innernet gurus seem to agree that the Uberti repro can do 28 000 PSI.
I'm running a 350 gr. FN boolit, seated on 40 gr. of IMR3031. That load, in a 45-70, generates somewhere around 16,000 PSI with a 380 grain boolit and is therefore suitable for use in antiques and trapdoor guns. So... I think I should be fine.
I hope.
Do any of you guys run those Magnetospeed chronographs? I have one and wonder - do they work on lever guns with that underslung tubular magazine?
Also, is it my imagination or has brass supplies dried up...? Gawd... I don't want to have to futz with making my own brass... :(
[QUOTE=Guy La Pourque;4292592]Here's what I did: the innernet gurus seem to agree that the Uberti repro can do 28 000 PSI.
I'm running a 350 gr. FN boolit, seated on 40 gr. of IMR3031. That load, in a 45-70, generates somewhere around 16,000 PSI with a 380 grain boolit and is therefore suitable for use in antiques and trapdoor guns. So... I think I should be fine.
I hope.
Ya proly should be fine - we all hope -------- question - what will be the pressure in a case ten grains less capacity with a bottle neck instead of straight wall ???
Serious question cuz that is what yre doin (would be usin n my brass anyhow)
I was very suspicious about smokeyless - the Uberti cost me $2400 and my hand (either one) is worth a whole lot more than that - so I diddled around asking questions and in the meantime shot black init - hello! that gun shoots black better'n I can hold it - it costs me way less to load it - I lost interest in smokeyless - no need to go there -- (I did have intentions - I cut 250 cases to suit a smokeyless load with my modified LEE boolit)
Think the ACTION of these rifles is likely more stronger than we think - weak point seems to be under the chamber - not much metal there at all .
In the Lyman 49th reloading Handbook there is a chapter (11) by Brian Pearce "Handloading the 1876 Replicas". it is a good read and contains 21 loads for the 45-75......
Thanks for the thought but I will stick with black - was always my preferred option in this rifle anyway - and its working well - loading is easy - velocity is good ---getting 1500FPS with my 335 grain boolit - absolutely nothing to gain from messing with smokeless.Quote:
Originally Posted by .45colt
GuyQuote:
Originally Posted by Guy La Pourque
In another thread I recommended a Dacron filler over 36 gr IMR3031 under your 350 gr bullet in the 45-75. That still should be quite safe but you may want to drop to 32 gr and still use the Dacron filler. That way you can work up to 1380 +/- fps which was the original velocity range for the 45-75 with a 350 gr bullet.
I have a MagnetSpeed chronograph because it was given to me. It does work. I have used it on full length magazine lever actions by mounting it on the side of the barrel (some times it ends up in the 10 to 11 o'clock position). I was using it on M94s and still was able to use the sights. Might try that(?).
Larry - thanks again, a million times over! Just a correction for your consideration: I am starting at 40 GR. in the lever gun. No filler to begin with. I don't think I should be anywhere near to blowing myself up; do you? My intent is not to hotrod this gun, I merely want to approximate black powder performance. In fact, I would prefer The Holy Black; but blow tubing and soaking spent cases in soapy water in the cold winter months is a pain. I will go to BP again when things warm up a bit... :)
From what little I found on the internet, some dude was saying his 45-75 repro did 1400 FPS and change with 42.5 grains of IMR 3031 under a 330 GR boolit. He went up to 43.5 and quit. I think I will be alright, and if I am too hot I will just shut 'er down and take my shells apart - and reload them at lower charge weights.
Assuming I survive I will definitely drop the charge back to 32 gr. and try some filler!
I think you'll survive.....:drinks:
As .45colt mention Lyman's #49 manual has some load info on the 45-75 in 1876 rifles....just none with IMR3031 though.
Uberti has said this: "Our '76 is good with any powder/bullet combo that the pressure does not exceed 28,000 CUP."
From my research the thing that made Winhester's "toggle link" action weak wasn't the type of systme, but rather the metal back then. Don't get it wrong it's definitely not as strong as some of the more modern lever actions. Here's the thing. The toggle action is pretty stout. Think German Luger. I've seen Lugers chambered in a lot of non-standard calibers like the 38 Super (which by the way only requires the 38 Super chamber. The magazine runs 38 Supers just fine I've done it. I believe also some machine guns (heavier types) ran toggle actions. So with these new modern Uberti toggle link lever action, they are stronger, but don't get carried away.
Oliver Winchester had the 1876 tested with black powder and the test was basically keep adding more bullets to the load until something happen. They shot some horrendous loads that only bent , their words, slightly bent the pin. They kept up till they put the rifle out of action and what happened was is severely bent the pin, blew the side plates off, that the case blew apart on the bottom of the chamber because it was thin and weak there because of the magazine tube hole. This is all on the internet.
Just start low and work up like larry said.
Can't imagine a Trail Boss load would not be safe.
WoW........IMR 4198 does well for a smokeless powder in my Uberti '76 .....She looks good! and she shoots well ! I sure don't want to hurt her!!!! A 3fff
charge makes her stand tall at the range!!!!
Ol Deuce