Why are people always looking to make rifle rounds subsonic???
You have the barrel length and the charge... Why would you go subsonic???
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Why are people always looking to make rifle rounds subsonic???
You have the barrel length and the charge... Why would you go subsonic???
With a good can subsonic are very quite......
Craze ,buzzword ,bandwagon,take your pick........Only true purpose of supressed subsonic is military ,or for poaching animals from private land without the landowner hearing any noise to indicate the crime is happening ,till he finds the remains of one of his steers the next day.
Because they are fun and different. Quiet, low recoil, lower cost, and they are just fun.
I want to be able to shoot deer in my garden in early morning hours without disturbing the neighbors.
Firing a blunt, heavy .45 bullet at 800 fps from a rifle does that without needing a "can" and you can eat right up to the bullet hole.
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Range toy and reduce/eliminate need for hearing protection.
I don’t understand things like slowing 223 down and using it for squirrel, only because the rifle is heavy vs a .22lr.
Have never poached, and certainly not a domesticated farm animal. I imagine that it’s a problem, but I find being painted with that brush somewhat offensive, so maybe we can avoid doing that in the future?
What? You do know that states allow silencers for hunting? I like my hearing and have used subsonic loads in conjunction w/ a silencer to take deer a few times. The owner of the farm I hunt on likes this. He’s not opposed to supersonic rounds. But a break of dawn shot that he doesn’t hear doesn’t wake him up.
I enjoy shooting some very reduced loads out of rifles , and several friends have as well .
The use of words like this shows ignorance of the topic. There are lots of uses. I assume you also think AR'Ss and AK's are only useful for military purposes too? I don't own either but don't have problem with others if that's what they want. You're in Aus. you can shoot dingos without spooking them so you can shoot more.
CS
This is very easy. It is the explosion of suppressor use. 10 years ago, I NEVER saw suppressors. I got to try one about 6 years ago and I thought God had opened the sky to bless me. Now I see them every month. I own 2. They are becoming mainstream. Just wait. After you touch off a 200+ grain bullet and the only sound you hear is that missile smacking the berm, you to will be hooked.
They should be legal for adults without registration. I dont have one but I understand their use- especially with more houses popping up when every landed heir sells the farm for development. Legalize switchblades , too- no deadlier than a regular knife IMO. Nighttime hog hunters love them so they dont disturb the landowners- who love the hog hunters results.
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As Outpost mentioned, even a gun without a suppressor is fairly quiet when sub-sonic ammo is used. I have only found the 300BLK, 22LR, 38Special, and 45 caliber guns to be accurate enough to keep me interested in shooting them sub-sonic.
Years ago I tried loading 308 sun-sonic. It worked, but the rifle’s twist rate did not support accuracy with larger bullets. I kind of figured that if I couldn’t launch at least a 200 grain or larger bullet accurately, it was not a good candidate for hunting.
Its still America... My use isnt now, nor ever was, contingent upon another acceptance for my doing something. ;)
Having said that.. My use is hunting over dogs. They have hearing too and none have advantage if protection. So If I can do something to help that and not effect me or my "wants" Why not!!
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. It would just be nice if folks with zero actual basis for that opinion would keep it to them selves. ;)
Supressors make for more enjoyment as they makes things quieter.
CW
This kind of thinking is toxic. This is why we are fighting a uphill battle for suppressor de-regulation. The "only" purpose is for military and poaching? You do realize a subsonic rifle round is still very loud unless suppressed. We better shame all the bow hunters. Way to sneaky. They're definitely up to no good.
Or, maybe an AR pistol is To loud when fired from the shoulder.
First time I shot a suppressed weapon, you couldn't wipe the smile off my face with a belt sander! Now I have one and one in jail. It saves what little hearing I have left.
While I have no use for a suppressor 'at this time', I do come down on the side of people having and using them. I believe suppressors can have a positive effect on the non-shooting public by not causing them to spit their coffee or mess themselves when a hunter or target shooter fires a round or two. The FedGov needs to declare them as non-NFA items. The $200.00 fee 'tax' should be declared null and void.
Arent "mouse fart" or other nicknames people have been using forever about the same thing as subsonic. I rather enjoy shooting my 30-06 with these types of loads because I can sit and shoot 50-100 rounds and still here the satisfying "ping when it hits steel.
just my 2 cents
I'll admit in the last .22lr shortage I tinkered with light loads of Red Dot in a .223rem single shot handi rifle with 55 gr cast bullets.
I came up with 2 winners, one with gas check and a little more Red Dot. Plenty accurate at 100 yards. 55grn Red Dot 6.6 1682 fps to 8.5 2022 fps
6.5 grs of Red Dot will get you in the 1800 fps area,and will shoot well also. Just hit 5" lower than factory.
The other was 55 gr bator bullet, no gas checks, 4.6 grains Red Dot. Should be just below 1400 fps.
This one had a slightly larger group. But assuming aimpoint was a squirrel eye, 10 shots would have killed 10 squirrels. They all printed in the head area.
Sounded a lot like a .22lr with a bit more smack on the far end. 55 gr vs 36 or 40, couple hundred feet per second faster.
Still supersonic, but quiet.
I think the same load in the mid 3's grains of Red Dot would be super quiet subsonic. But I have no chrony to test. And .22lr came back on the market and lowered prices quickly so I shelved that project and moved onto something else.
I have read that suppressors are legal in England and that their use is encouraged to reduce noise pollution but I have not verified this.
You can apply that to the whole of Europe. They are treated as the PPE that they are. But it’s not surprising they are treated the way they are here. The NFA exists for no other reason than government control. Thankfully handguns were removed before it became law.
Can you imagine the media frenzy if silencers, this is the term the ATF uses(along w/ muffler), were made legal. We’d here about how inner city gangs are going to use them to commit mass murders. Last time I checked this happens daily anyway. And the media would be using the same fear tactics that were used to pass the NFA in 1934.
I would like to have one to be able to shoot without ear protection. I was hoping the Trump administration would get the laws changed but I guess I will need to do through the hoops if I want one badly enough.
If the SHTF, I will make one as I have a lathe and regulations will not matter. Being able to take game or eradicate two legged pests relatively quietly is advantageous if the SHTF.
I'm kinda on the fence on this subject, and I've read some above posts that make no sense at all. I have several "subsonic loads" and they surely ain't quiet just because they are under 1,100 fps. Thinking about many handgun loads like 44 Specials, 45 Colt, 38 Specials, and some 9mms that are under the speed of sound, but not at all quiet, even those running 300 fps below speed of sound. Someone mentioned down loading .223 as being silly, but I have an extremely accurate load for my .223 Handi-Rifle consisting of a 45 gr cast .224" bullet over some WC820 that depending on my load run about Long Rifle to 22 Magnum velocities. Funner to shoot than my rimfires and even with minimum loads are not quiet enough to go without hearing protection. I cannot fathom why suppressors were made illegal in the first place. Were they heavily use by the mobs in 1934?
I might try one if I didn't have to jump through the hoops (adding my name to another government agency as a gun owner, do all the paper work and pay the $200 "tax"). Besides, I'm OK with my ear plugs that make my 44 Magnums "pleasant" to shoot...
I stay subsonic in my buffalo rifles, to avoid the midrange transition at around 700 yards.
I’m glad to see the posts that are against this line of thinking.
Even if you don’t agree 100% with a certain type of firearm and/or accessory, keep in mind that others enjoy those item. It gets more people involved.
I for one own suppressors and enjoy shooting and reloading to get a subsonic load. Does this mean I’m going to poach something? Absolutely not!
When hunting hogs while using a suppressor they have no idea where the shot comes from and run all over versus without suppressor where they just run away. It opens more opportunities to eliminate.
John, we have the God given right of gun ownership here in the USA. In reality, almost no suppressed rounds are ever fired for poaching in the US, we really dont need to mask gunfire. As far as military, our constitution proclaimed that we have the same right to bear the same arms so as to defend ourselves from the government and military in the case of a tyrant.
God bless Suppressors, AR's, Hi-Cap Mags.
Many reasons;
Indoor range practice
Short range plinking
Small game hunting
Vermin shooting
Teaching non-shooters to shoot
Reduced muzzle blast
Etcetera ad nauseum......
Full power loads and even "normal" reduced loads many times are still to powerful and noisy for the above. I have used subsonic loads in 22 though 45 caliber CF rifles for many, many years to my and others complete satisfaction. Besides, this is still the United States and I don't need a reason "why".
As to use with suppressors; I have been using suppressed weapons since '66 and had my own since '80. I've used them on my own rifles firing sub-sonic rifle cartridges from 22LR up through .308W. Currently in 22 Hornet, 223 Rem and .308W I shoot both sub-sonic (most often cast) and full house jacketed bullet loads. I also use them on handguns (M1911 45 ACP) and on my Rhineland conversion 45 ACP M98 Mauser which are all sub-sonic loads to begin with.
I'll not comment on john k's post as I prefer not to get banned.......
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"Thanks Gibson"...you may have turned this thread around from it going farther downhill and eventually being closed!
Even a brain is a useless tool if you can not find a reason to use it or use it properly. However I do support your right to have and use one as you see fit.
Suppressors are simply PPE and reduce your risk of hearing loss. Try shooting any of your guns in a confined area; it is quite an uncomfortable experience. Now imagine that in the confines of your hallway in the middle of the night. For me this justifies the possession and use of suppressors alone.
As far as reduced loads or sub sonic loads go; they really knock down the noise and recoil. Which makes them useful in literally hundreds of applications. I first started down that path just to see how low I could go and still get reasonable accuracy. It's just fun and something else to do with in the scope of our respective hobby.
How many of you with guns for defending your home have ever fired a 45 acp or even a 9mm in a hallway without hearing protection??? Your second / third shot may not be anywhere near where you intend them to be [nor will your hearing] . Maybe your adrenaline will keep you going long enough to finish what needs to be done.
When you get into a flock of ptarmigan or grouse, a suppressor on a 22lr using CCI quiet and you can usually get several before the survivors figure out they are in danger. I have been hoping they would drop the license for suppressors but I think I'm going to have to go ahead with the paper work so I can make one.
Subsonic bullets can be very accurate. For game shooting at close range they work well, especially in the larger calibers.
300 BO 247 grn NOE over a lite charge of 700X is deadly at 100 yards subsonic and super quiet through a can [ single shot rifle]
shooting this is more fun than a barrel of monkeys, pull the trigger, see the boolit fly, hear the steel ring, no hearing protection required :)
My neighbor knows that I am shooting deer in the yard, but he is also appreciative that I use a reduced noise firearm which does not disturb his livestock. I've set him up with some "blooper" loads for his .375 H&H with 11 grains of Bullseye and #375449 which he uses for deer damage control loads and they are very effective out to 200 yards with good sight dope. No "can" needed there either.
The suppressor has another purpose not yet mentioned. It keeps rain and mud and other debris out of the muzzle. It also reduces recoil recoil with full power loads.
As for subsonic rounds - they eliminate the sonic or transonic crack when using a suppressor.
There is yet another benefit of suppressor use not mentioned. They dampen muzzle vibration, sometimes leading to far better accuracy, plus they stabilize the rifle for off handed shooting if they are heavy enough to make a difference.
I prefer to shoot subsonic ammunition in my handguns I find it more enjoyable , I would rather shoot a heavy bullet at a 1000fps than a light one at 1400 .
I have no suppressors cause I am cheap , combined with not jumping through the hoops they have put in place to make it hard to own one. Hate to say that , it is a victory in my case for the anti's.
You'll still need ear protection. They do not actually silence, they just reduce the sound level 30 or 40dB. That's from around 190dB. Check out the VSO Gun Channel on Youtube, search "pillow" and find "Pillow vs Silencer: Is it a Hollywood Myth?" Watch it. You'll get a much better idea of the reality of what silencers do. He gets a subsonic 300 Blackout down to about 125dB. Pretty quiet for a gun, but not at all silent.
I'd like to be able to shoot without ear protection, too. OTH, I'm the oldest male in my family not wearing hearing aides, and I'd like to keep it that way.