Target alloy vs. hunting alloy in the same caliber

I have the RCBS mold for 35 rem boolits, 35 cal gas checks, some tin, some pure, and a pile of COWW ingots. My eventual goal is to have a suitable deer load (probably mulies) and hog load developed by next Fall. As a stepping stone to that goal, I also want to cast up some boolits for target loads from the same rifle. Based on a lot of reading here, I will be aiming for 50/50 plus 2 to 4% tin for the hunting rounds. Is there an obvious problem with casting straight COWW target bullets, working up a load and then using that load for the hunting rounds with the 50/50 + tin alloy? Any reason to expect markedly different accuracy, POI, etc. with just an alloy switch? The reason I ask is that if I have to go two separate tracks to develop what will be completely different loads I would rather know up front and plan accordingly.

Add 2% tin to your COWWs for targets loads. Simply mix that alloy 50/50 with lead for hunting bullets. It's what I do with my 35-200-FN RCBS bullet in my M91 35 Remington. I use same load for both so zero is the same. I can shoot the practice bullets all day w/o leading and excellent accuracy. I push both at 2140 fps.

I clean the barrel every 8 rounds +/- to maintain best accuracy. That's not a problem for a hunting load. I also HP the hunting bullets 3/16" deep with the Forster HP tool.

Thanks, Larry. Do you experience similar accuracy degradation after a similar number of rounds with the target loads, or is that a function of the softer alloy of the hunting rounds?

It's just a function of the softer alloy pushed as hard as I push them. I've used that alloy for years in 7mm up through my 375 H&H at 1900 - 2200+ fps.

They work for me especially in my 35 Remington. Here's two 5 shot groups at 100 yards to zero. Then I moved the Lyman rear sight up 3 moa and shot 5 shots at 200 yards. I cleaned the barrel between groups and all groups contain the "fouler" out of the cold clean barrel.

Attachment 206241

Here's the end result.

Attachment 206242Attachment 206243

Very nice! I appreciate the guidance. I will start out with COWWs + 2% to do load development, then. What do you size to?

I don't mess around with 3 different alloys for three different purposes in a hunting rifle.
I keep things super simple.
I have a 3'x4'x3' stack of triangle ingots under the bench, they are all the exact same alloy.
3 parts ww's 1 part stick on ww's and about .75% added Tin.
I air cool for pistol stuff.
water drop for rife stuff.
and add 1 lb of lino to 8 lbs of the big batch for the 9mm pistols.

I use that same recipe for everything.
paper, rocks, rabbits, grouse, deer, elk, can's, self defense carry.... in short everything.
the only thing I don't use it for is ,well,, heck I even use it to make some of my swaged bullets.

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Originally Posted by brewer12345

Very nice! I appreciate the guidance. I will start out with COWWs + 2% to do load development, then. What do you size to?

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I use a .360 H&I die in a Lyman 450 to seat the GC then lube as the bullets drop at .360 there is very little if any sizing done.

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Originally Posted by runfiverun

I don't mess around with 3 different alloys for three different purposes in a hunting rifle.
I keep things super simple.
I have a 3'x4'x3' stack of triangle ingots under the bench, they are all the exact same alloy.
3 parts ww's 1 part stick on ww's and about .75% added Tin.
I air cool for pistol stuff.
water drop for rife stuff.
and add 1 lb of lino to 8 lbs of the big batch for the 9mm pistols.

I use that same recipe for everything.
paper, rocks, rabbits, grouse, deer, elk, can's, self defense carry.... in short everything.
the only thing I don't use it for is ,well,, heck I even use it to make some of my swaged bullets.

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The big game bullets hold up when they hit bone?

yes I generally run them in the standard speed range [19-2,000fps] but do run a couple of rifles up further.

the 358 win I run with 48.5 grs of RL-19 and a 250 gr boolit.
my buddy kept borrowing it for land owner tag cull work, I had to go get it back from him 3 years in a row, then he finally found one of his own, now he just wants ammo [siiigh]

in the Argie rifle I make a hybrid ww alloy and copper tubing bullet that is great for 175-200 lb deer within 150 yds at about 2300 fps it will punch both shoulders with little meat damage.

in the 30-30 carbine I run a water dropped 311041 on top of 34.5grs of old school 4831 [like ww-2 surplus old school] for just over 1800 fps it will penetrate from chest to ham at 40 yds no problem and it just whips on through on a broadside shot.
if I think shots might be stretched out to 150yds or so I use AA-2230 and the rcbs 30-150 fngc for more velocity and a little flatter trajectory, and either take the 30-30 lever [rifle length] or the savage 340-A bolt gun.

the same alloy in the 45-70 is a straight line penetrator on even Elk.
I dunno if the 435gr flat nose even slowed down all that much when it broke down the scapula's and took out the lungs on that last bull.
we could hear the boolit knocking it's way through the willows then finally hitting a pine tree.
pretty good for about 1600 fps from an old 86 lever gun.

there is some expansion involved here so don't think everything is just penciling through and continuing on towards Wyoming.
the 358 and the Argie boolits both have quite small meplats otherwise they will tear up too much meat due to the velocity.

the 45-70 don't need any expansion but I'm sure there is some the exit wounds show there is.

I don't like boolits or bullets to stay inside an animal.
I go to great lengths with my home swaged rifle bullets to insure that the expansion is controlled so I get an exit hole or a damn good reason why it didn't.
the last one I retrieved was after punching a rib near the sternum and exiting the shoulder bone and catching under the skin on a 300 lb Mule deer [18-19" of penetration]
you can figure the angle for that shot.

run5run, interesting stuff. I tend to want complete pass-through, but the more energy that gets dumped into the target the better via expansion.

I am going on my first elk hunt next month with a group of experienced elk hunters. Very much looking forward to it. I'd like to take the 35 or get a 45/70, but I was advised that the shots tend to be 200 to 300 yards and my buddy has made a shot as far as 378 yards. Well beyond those calibers so I bought a 30-06. I will hunt with Barnes TTSX fodder this year, but if I can figure out a cast solution for next year it would be ideal. Somehow a bolt action 30-06 seems a little soulless compared with the lever actions I much prefer.

sometimes you have to reach out there.
I was pretty happy to have the 0-6 along this fall.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hp?345249-Deer

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Originally Posted by runfiverun

sometimes you have to reach out there.
I was pretty happy to have the 0-6 along this fall.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...hp?345249-Deer

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No choice for the planned elk hunt. As to deer, I am not that hard up for food that I starve if I come home without one. So I would rather just be out there looking with a 150 yard rifle and let the chips fall where they may. At least I get out there,

I mostly use a levergun and keep in the pines and just scoot along real slow watching everything.
the 358 above is kind of the rifle with a scope compromise between the two.
our area here is similar to your front range or western slope area there.

the options for shot distances vary from one side of the hill to the other and changes as you go up or down in elevation.
unfortunately the deer are also found in all of those scenarios and it isn't uncommon for me to use 2 rifles in the same day, nor to completely change hunting units because of the deer being available in one area in the morning and again moving elsewhere where I can hunt them in the afternoon.

Hah! Change hunting units, he says... With the goofy game laws here that is just a pipe dream. Last couple of years I did not even get a deer tag in the draw and had to settle for a lousy leftover tag. This year I have a sloppy seconds tag that only allows me to rifle hunt a 5000 acre patch of open scrub desert where I will be lucky to see deer at all. Have not scouted all of it, but so far I have not even seen any sign. I will still go and have fun outdoors, but the prospects are skinny enough that I will have a revolver loaded with wadcutters handy for the far more likely prospect of rabbits. Maybe I will finally bust a coyote with my lever and bring the hide home to be tanned...

our units are laid out a little weird.
our ranges run the same direction as yours does but the valleys are only like 9 miles wide at the most and each mountain range is more like 30-40 as the crow flies.
i can scoot through some of the dirt roads and across the valley and be in another unit in like 15 minutes then spend 45 minutes cutting through the canyon again then another 20 minutes and be in a third unit.
i can also drive north-south not leave the county and cut through 2 units then cross the highway and be in a third, cut through that piece of forest land and pop out in a fourth unit. all within 50-60 miles.

I could also spend 4 day's walking and camping and not leave any of those units.

our Elk tags are different you get them for specific units.
the range to the east of me is different than the one to my south but it ties into two other units to the north of me.
the one to my south covers 3 other units to the west [except one section right in the middle, that is a separate tag with different rules, and super fuzzy boundaries]

I'd say use a different alloy depending on use & boolit. Spire points (high BC) need a harder alloy to prevent nose slump. 041 is like a can of soup - big flat nose. I have a formula for super hard, hard and mild soft. They all work and I can make whichever I feel I need for the application. Never hurts to have more tools in the box. I used my hard on a pig and got stern to snout pass through. This year I used mild soft 5 shots and still lost it. I did get a massive blood trail this time. I do think I get 3 hits but buddy hit the other one which distracted me and mine was near the brush when I got hits. On the other hand I was shooting steel @ 200 with the 308W full cast load, ~2" 3 shot - wouldn't get that with soft.

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Originally Posted by popper

I'd say use a different alloy depending on use & boolit. Spire points (high BC) need a harder alloy to prevent nose slump. 041 is like a can of soup - big flat nose. I have a formula for super hard, hard and mild soft. They all work and I can make whichever I feel I need for the application. Never hurts to have more tools in the box. I used my hard on a pig and got stern to snout pass through. This year I used mild soft 5 shots and still lost it. I did get a massive blood trail this time. I do think I get 3 hits but buddy hit the other one which distracted me and mine was near the brush when I got hits. On the other hand I was shooting steel @ 200 with the 308W full cast load, ~2" 3 shot - wouldn't get that with soft.

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How about adding some brinell figures to your different alloys so I can study them.

Super hard - isocore with 2%Cu - no tin - heat treated. hard - isocore with 0.5% Cu - no tin. Med soft - 1%Sb/0.5%Cu/0.5% Zn. Don't have a tester.

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Originally Posted by popper

Super hard - isocore with 2%Cu - no tin - heat treated. hard - isocore with 0.5% Cu - no tin. Med soft - 1%Sb/0.5%Cu/0.5% Zn. Don't have a tester.

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Thank you!