Gas piston longevity

I’ve only gotten back into air guns over the last couple of years, so the gas piston guns were new to me.
Springers and pneumatic pumps and of course co2 are all I knew of as a kid and young adult.

My question for those that have followed air guns for a lot longer than I have, is how long have the gas pistons been on the market? I see reports of “should last a lifetime”, but have they been around long enough to really know that yet?

One reason i’m asking is some cal. and models that I like are’nt available in a springer that i’m aware of.
Of course a piston can be replaced like a spring, but i’m wondering how often that might be needed over time compared to a springer on average.
Pistons are probably more expensive to replace?

I wish these companies would just make each model and cal, available in both spring and piston so you had a choice between them.
Of course some of them are, but others don’t seem to be.

I think that you will go through a lot of springs, seals, top hats, etc. before you need a piston, unless something is wrong at the get-go.

Quality springers are usually more accurate then gas pistons, Google TX200, HW97, HW77, HW95, HW98, HW80, and prolly the best the AIR ARMS Pro-sport.

Gas pistons have been around for at least 20 years. I have a 1997 Beeman catalog that lists a gas piston airgun. They have become much more common in the last 10 years. For certain higher end spring powered airguns, gas piston conversions are offered. They do last a very long time. Some of the better gas guns have a valve in the rear, that you can add or bleed air, to set the piston power. Overcharging will shorten the gas ram life. They do have a different cocking sensation, and are snappier when fired. They are not necessiarily much more powerful than comparable spring guns, but they don't lose power over time, as a normal spring would weaken.

I think my next airgun will be a gas ram, probably a HW90, or it's Beeman equivalent, which I believe is a RX2. I don't have any personal experience on accuracy differences between springers and gas rams, but generally, more powerful airguns are not quite as accurate than lesser power airguns.

Thanks for the replies. I didn’t realize the pistons had been around that long for sure. Also surprised it could potentially out last a spring.

I guess i’ve been comparing them in my mind to the pistons that raise and lower a hatch back car door lol, which never seem to last long for me.
This gives me a bit more confidence to at least give one a try.....maybe.

I bought my Umarex Octane some time in 2009. (I think) I'm on my third replacement Gas Piston. In all fairness though, the first two were subjected to alot of abuse due to me trying different power mods with mine.

I've easily gone through twice as many Piston-Seals. At one point I was in negotiations with a Gas Piston maker in Australia trying to make a custom Gas Piston for some of us guys on the Umarex Octane shooters group. It was kind of like a "Group-Buy" thing but after testing the prototypes they sent me it just didn't pan out for us. The pistons they made were high quality but they were dimensionally to short and they didn't produce the power/velocities we were lead to believe they would. On top of that was the shipping distance and cost associated with such an arrangement.

The factory replacement Gas-Pistons are pretty good. I did notice that they'll vary somewhat in the power and velocity from one piston to the other though.

HollowPoint

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Originally Posted by HollowPoint

I bought my Umarex Octane some time in 2009. (I think) I'm on my third replacement Gas Piston. In all fairness though, the first two were subjected to alot of abuse due to me trying different power mods with mine.

I've easily gone through twice as many Piston-Seals. At one point I was in negotiations with a Gas Piston maker in Australia trying to make a custom Gas Piston for some of us guys on the Umarex Octane shooters group. It was kind of like a "Group-Buy" thing but after testing the prototypes they sent me it just didn't pan out for us. The pistons they made were high quality but they were dimensionally to short and they didn't produce the power/velocities we were lead to believe they would. On top of that was the shipping distance and cost associated with such an arrangement.

The factory replacement Gas-Pistons are pretty good. I did notice that they'll vary somewhat in the power and velocity from one piston to the other though.

HollowPoint

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So an average of a piston every 3 years. Did they lose power slowly over time, or just kind of go out all at once?

I don't think its fair to calculate based on my initial post or reply. Like I said, I basically tortured my first two gas pistons trying to get more power out of them. This included adding some pre-load to the pistons so that when the gun was cocked it put the inside pressure of the piston to even further stress than they were designed to withstand or produce.

On my second factory replacement I figured out a way to move forward the cocking notch on my piston sleeve a bit to add more pre-load. This did add to my velocity but not by enough to really make it worth while. The premature death of that Gas Piston made it not worth while both in terms of power and velocity gains and in cash layout on the shortened life spans of my Gas Pistons.

In some of the literature I've read about Gas Pistons, and also verified by the folks I mentioned from Australia, it was noted that if a Gas Piston was going to go bad, it would generally do so within a couple of weeks of installing it. With "Normal" usage, they are said to last for a long time. I don't really know what the definition of "Normal" is for a typical Gas Piston but, I'd say that my latest Gas Piston has been in my air rifle at least three years and it's still going strong.

HollowPoint

I purchased several seals from that company in Australia. They advertise their products on Ebay. They are very reasonable, and offer free shipping. Usually 7 to 10 days for east coast. They are advertised in Australian dollars. USD conversion is about 25% less.

I'm going on 30 years with my Beeman Webley Omega Springer without any repairs. Was shooting 50yrd at clay targets a few weeks back. I have to have close or over 100,000 shots through it.

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Originally Posted by GBertolet

I purchased several seals from that company in Australia. They advertise their products on Ebay. They are very reasonable, and offer free shipping. Usually 7 to 10 days for east coast. They are advertised in Australian dollars. USD conversion is about 25% less.

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That's how I initially heard about this company. I first bought one of their seals when I wasn't able to get a factory replacement seal from Umarex or one of the other sellers that were on the internet at the time. Mine was shipped from Australia. They may have set up a distributor in the United States since then.

They also sent me out a couple of free piston seals to distribute to any of our members in the Umarex Octane Shooters group I'm a part of when I ordered those custom Gas Pistons I mentioned before. When I last spoke to them they told me that they were in the process of changing the way they manufactured those seals. They used to turn them on a CNC lathe but they were going to start making them in molds. Compared to the factory piston seals, these Aussie piston seals were made using a recipe that included the impregnation of the Urethane mix they used with a bit of some sort of powder to add lubricity to the seal. I've forgotten the name or type of powder. I want to say it's graphite but I'm not sure.

I found that compared to the factory seals, the ones made by this Australian firm seemed to last longer but in my air guns they also tended to not produce the velocities that the factory seals produced. It was a trade off between longevity and velocity. I don't know what it is with me but, I tend to want maximum velocity as long as it doesn't compromise any existing accuracy.

HollowPoint

I've got a Webley Vulcan that I bought from Beeman back in the '70s. It's never really given me a problem but I'm wondering if the seal goes, should I just replace that or is there maybe a gas piston that could be installed instead? I don't know if anybody supports those but I understand that there are some airguns made in Turkey that carry the Beeman name nowadays so maybe?

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Originally Posted by LandSurveyor

I've got a Webley Vulcan that I bought from Beeman back in the '70s. It's never really given me a problem but I'm wondering if the seal goes, should I just replace that or is there maybe a gas piston that could be installed instead? I don't know if anybody supports those but I understand that there are some airguns made in Turkey that carry the Beeman name nowadays so maybe?

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You can go online to customairseals.com. They may have what you're looking for in he way of a gas spring that you can retro-fit into your Webley Vulcan. I've heard of this being done with other older models of various brand name air rifles. I don't know enough about the differences between one air gun and another. I'm mainly dealing with one brand and one of the models that this brand sells.

If the Webley Vulcan had developed any kind of popularity I'm sure there's someone out there who tried upgrading from a metal spring to a gas spring. If it's just the seal that appears to have given up the ghost and the spring is still giving you acceptable performance, it would probably be easiest to just replace the seal. Generally speaking, the Piston Seal and the Gas piston are two different components. On my air rifle I have a Piston Seal, a Gas Piston and a Piston Sleeve. If any one of them were to go bad the least expensive way to fix it would be to only replace the part that went bad.

HollowPoint

Thank you!