The or A, True Conversion Experience

I have been seeing this term tossed about in here, (conversion experience).

I just guess I was a practicing apologist long before it was a thing. I've never had anything like some describe happen to me, yet I believe the proof and follow Christ. Of course I see the Holy Spirit working in my life and other Christians lives.

My question is thus. If one does not have this overwhelming experience, did God reject him, is it necessary to "feel" something miraculous to be a Christian, and is it counter productive to almost insist one should have had this?

So you only know if you were accepted by your god if you feel a certain way? That certain feeling is your god's way of communicating his acceptance of your submission to his demands? Your god does not really have a physical, rational way of communicating his thoughts and decisions with you? Do you normally spend a lot of time guessing and pondering what in the world your god wants?

Back to the question -
i think it is just an emotional reaction. The same folks also have extreme emotional reactions and internal stress in many other situations.
You might notice there are a lot of jail house conversions as the weak and dishonest try to find a way to dig themselves out of a hole of their own making. Some elements of the conversions are also rational since it is another way for the convert to shed some guilt. This helps them like normal humans even though they are basically corner cutting con artists that attempt to get through life by using people and stealing from them..

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Originally Posted by Thundarstick

I have been seeing this term tossed about in here, (conversion experience).

I just guess I was a practicing apologist long before it was a thing. I've never had anything like some describe happen to me, yet I believe the proof and follow Christ. Of course I see the Holy Spirit working in my life and other Christians lives.

My question is thus. If one does not have this overwhelming experience, did God reject him, is it necessary to "feel" something miraculous to be a Christian, and is it counter productive to almost insist one should have had this?

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Dramatic "conversion" experiences make for great "testimonies" and sermon illustrations for Preachers, but are far from the Christian norm. The indicia of Christian conversion, is what a person believes and how they follow through with that belief in their lives. For most folks conversion is gradual/incremental and often passes unnoticed by the individual, until they look into the rear view mirror of their lives.

I leave apologetics to others more suited. I spent my life as a Pastor, teacher, evanglist and missionary church planter. I occupy myself with the practical aspects of Christian ministry. My job is to find the findable and teach them discipleship when found. Those that reject, scoff or just want to argue are not my concern, there is to much productive work to do.

"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few"....Rabbi Joshua Ben Joseph" (Matthew 9:37)

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Originally Posted by Thundarstick

...I've never had anything like some describe happen to me, yet I believe the proof and follow Christ. Of course I see the Holy Spirit working in my life and other Christians lives.

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Love that you've brought this up. Now, all I'll say below are my opinions, based on my 79 years of human observations and not any of my (very) fallible thoughts or wishes:

Nothing "happened" to me either, just a 16 yr. old, at the time. It was just a decision I finally made to accept as true from the evidence of a life in Christ that I saw in others and it drew me in. I saw the happier lives of the many older Christians I knew well; not a healthier, richer or trouble free life from others as some suggest but, over all, a much happier life than I saw in non-Christians. Those people clearly knew things I (and my uncommitted parents) did not experience. I wanted what they had, both for myself and my future family. And, even at that age, I felt that what scientists were saving about origins of the universe and living things were statistically preposterous and the only alternative was God.

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... my question is thus. If one does not have this overwhelming experience, did God reject him, is it necessary to "feel" something miraculous to be a Christian,

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Good question. Absolutely not.

God gives each of us what we actually need in accordance with His plan for us, not just what we want. I obviously didn't need any glowing event, neither did you. But neither of us are missing a thing. ??

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...and is it counter productive to almost insist one should have had this?

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Yes, it is. And it chaps my well aged butt to hear/see anyone to say otherwise. because it IS discouraging, especially so to many new Christians.

I've read that Book from cover to cover, including Leviticus and Numbers, and there are a lot of believers in it, both Old and New sides, but not once is any mystic experience at or after salvation mentioned; if such spiritual experiences were required, or even typical, surely it would be mentioned; it is not. Therefore, I trust what scripture says, not other men, not even me! "ALL who call on the name of the Lord will be saved."

(And that includes "tongues"; my wife has it, I don't - so what?)

Scripture says "those who believe and confess with their mouth" and "you shall know them by their fruits" pretty well sums it up. I have not seen anywhere that a requirement is having some "experience" and that includes, but is not limited to "speaking in tongues", something that is taught in some denominations. We are counted as "righteous" when we believe what God says. We find that in Hebrews chapter 11. "It was counted to him as righteousness."
Speaking in tongues is a gift that is given for a specific occasion, just as a gift of healing or a word of knowledge. It is given as God sees the need for it. To say one has the "gift of healing, etc" is building ones self up for self glorification. Those gifts and others like them are for one purpose, and that is to glorify God.

My Bible tells me that my salvation was established prior to the foundations of the Earth. Among other things this suggests that my 'conversion experience' is nothing more than recognizing what God has done and is doing in my life. On the other hand Christ stated that no one comes to him without the Holy Spirit first drawing or convicting them - and that implies that for some it may be dramatic. Since God is infinite I suppose He has an infinitude of ways to accomplish His will.

No whizz-bang experiences are necessary or particularly desirable. In fact, they can be a considerable distraction from following Christ. Human beings, being fallen, are apt to fall in love with the unusual phenomena and pine after them rather than God. I see it in worship services where people leave disappointed if there isn't some new "sign" to be amazed by. If that's necessary, aren't people going there to be entertained rather than to worship? I see "health and wealth" believers who have health challenges and suffer greatly, not from the illness so much, but from the anguish of believing they have insufficient faith or they'd be in perfect health, another "sign". I saw a grieving man who just lost his wife to cancer not an hour before told by a colleague that if he'd just had enough faith, his wife would still be alive. This reliance on visible/sensible signs can be a great cruelty. All of us suffer in whatever degree, but no suffering or success need be wasted. All should be surrendered to the Will of God and placed in His hands and so join our sufferings to Christ's on the cross. He lets nothing happen but that greater good should come of it, and mostly, we won't have any idea how this is to be. It is for us to respond to what arrives in our lives with reliance on His grace and the best effort we can do, given what we have.

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Originally Posted by yeahbub

... I see "health and wealth" believers who have health challenges and suffer greatly, not from the illness so much, but from the anguish of believing they have insufficient faith or they'd be in perfect health, another "sign". I saw a grieving man who just lost his wife to cancer not an hour before told by a colleague that if he'd just had enough faith, his wife would still be alive. This reliance on visible/sensible signs can be a great cruelty.

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The health and wealth "faith" challenge is corrupt. We're all fallible so I try to cut everyone some slack when they say dumm things because most of it doesn't really matter. But the effects of that truly dumm concept isn't harmless to others, it can cause people already in the agonizing depths of loss and deep emotional pain to hurt even more because it lays the responsibility for good results on them instead of trusting Jesus' wisdom. So,THAT bit of un-Biblical, self-righteous and smug pain inducing teaching makes lil' ol' lo' key me ANGRY!

Truth is, those who believe faith will hold off earthly death and keep believers rich will need to explain why we aren't overrun with rich 2,000 year old believers, from the Apostles to today's TV farces like Benny Hind, Joel O'Steen, Ceflo Dollar, etc. (Well, they ARE "rich" - now - but they won't live much longer; then it will be Hell to pay!)

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All should be surrendered to the Will of God and placed in His hands and so join our sufferings to Christ's on the cross. He lets nothing happen but that greater good should come of it, and mostly, we won't have any idea how this is to be. It is for us to respond to what arrives in our lives with reliance on His grace and the best effort we can do, given what we have.

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Amen.

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Originally Posted by 1hole

The health and wealth "faith" challenge is corrupt. We're all fallible so I try to cut everyone some slack when they say dumm things because most of it doesn't really matter. But the effects of that truly dumm concept isn't harmless to others, it can cause people already in the agonizing depths of loss and deep emotional pain to hurt even more because it lays the responsibility for good results on them instead of trusting Jesus' wisdom. So,THAT bit of un-Biblical, self-righteous and smug pain inducing teaching makes lil' ol' lo' key me ANGRY!

Truth is, those who believe faith will hold off earthly death and keep believers rich will need to explain why we aren't overrun with rich 2,000 year old believers, from the Apostles to today's TV farces like Benny Hind, Joel O'Steen, Ceflo Dollar, etc. (Well, they ARE "rich" - now - but they won't live much longer; then it will be Hell to pay!)



Amen.

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At least we can agree on this. One my biggest problems with the “church” is the fundraising.

That's not the church, that's heresy. However, Jesus had more to say about money than about Heaven. Think about that for a moment or two.

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Originally Posted by Wayne Smith

That's not the church, that's heresy. However, Jesus had more to say about money than about Heaven. Think about that for a moment or two.

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Very true, Jesus and the early church understood how peoples "lust" for money and it's place in life was an indicia of spiritual health. That was true then and is just as true now.

In the KJV, 1 Tim 6:10 was translated as, "The love of money is the root of all evil." That's one of several places the KJV translators missed it. They should have said (and does say in other versions) that "the love of money is a root of all kinds (i.e., many kinds) of evil". Getting the original "root" translation right makes a BIG difference in how well we understand that verse!

The KJV team were good men, I respect them very much but they were not infallible. Everyone should recognise that there were and still are many sins that have no root in a quest for money.

Thanks for the replies. The reason I posted this was to hopefully open a few eyes about how discouraging and dangerous it could be to put so much emphasis on" feelings". I happen to believe feelings are very unreliable, and focusing too much one how a person feels, could actually shut someone out because they don't have the same experience as you or I.

I agree that God had infinite gates to bring someone through. I think, I would do well to NOT shut most all of them for someone else to pass into, because of my limited view!

BTW, I've learned to see others views rite here in "the pit of pits ".:wink:

No "whiz-bang" experience for me either.

Just studied the Bible and accepted most of it...not all of it. Decided Jesus was there, and He was what He said He was. That made it simple for me at least.

There was a change in me when that happened.

Wish I had not been so arrogant and pig-headed for most my life.

I've spoken of the conversion experience as being LIKE "a portal to another dimension opening up," but not everyone has the same experience. Nothing less than that, though, is usually successful at bringing the more resistive to Christ. It takes something remarkable and strong to convince them that Christ is indeed our King and our Savior and Redeemer. So if you haven't experienced something like that, don't fret. It's not necessary. Many of us, if not most, are not resistive like some tend to be. So relax, and enjoy your salvation, and do your best to pass it on.