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Black Friday sales are starting up and I’m thinking I might like a variable power scope on my AR. I’ve got my SHTF/end all be all optic already, this is just cheap fun to stretch its legs once in a while.
So how far am I shooting this thing accurately? How much magnification is realistic? At the moment I’m eyeing a Bushnell AR 3-12x40 that Cabela’s is going to have on sale for $100 with a Herters mount thrown in.
You should be good at 200yd. with that rig.
So 3-12 is drastic overkill.
About 250 yds with 100 zero. X9 is tough to do more than 100 for tight groups. I use a x18 on mine.
Accurate range will depend on several factors. Ammo, optics, condition of your shooting iron, etc. The most important thing will be the shooter themselves. If the person doing the shooting is proficient, 300 - 400 yds. are doable. To accomplish this range will require some regular practice at desired ranges. What someone can do at 100yds does not mean that they can do it at 400 yds. As for the 3x12 scope, in my opinion will work just fine. Keep your range reasonable, you should have no trouble putting meat on the table. most weapons can out shoot the shooter. Their is no substitute for trigger time to become as one with your piece. Good hunting, be safe, enjoy your time afield. Don't forget to practice. :Fire:
I was hoping you’d chime in, popper. Why so much magnification, are you bullseye shooting? This is a playtoy, possible deer rifle and a “just in case, just because SHTF might happen and I can get ammo for it!” Right now I have a Vortex Spitfire 1x on it, virtually bullet proof, illuminated and an etched reticle. Pretty near perfect for its intended role. As I said, the scope would just be for fun so I have no problem going cheap it.
This rifle has proven several times it can out shoot me! I’ve no idea why so many people are down on DPMS, they really make a fine gun!Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Whittler
Again, the scope would just be for fun and probably just punch paper unless my son wants to use it. But even then all the places we’d hunt would be iron sight ranges, maybe 125yds, and that’s pushing it! So I’ve no problem using the Vortex for that duty, I know and trust it, if that makes any sense?
Are we talking 308 winchester here, if so with the proper scope I would not hesitate to shoot it out to 600-700 yards for fun and 300-400 for hunting with the proper bullet.
Yes, AR-10 in .308/7.62x51 NATO.
depends what you are trying to achieve. if you want to shoot tiny groups or prarrie dogs or other small targets 12x is smallish. if you just want to hit something like silhouettes at a few hundred yards, 12x is more than plenty.
For a second scope for "playing" I would recommend 6-18 with a good parallax adjustment. This will allow adjusting for mirage when needed and for different ranges. 3-12 is good also. For shtf I would look at 1-4 or 2-7, or even a good set of iron sights. Don't discount the Military style iron sights with rear peep and front blade. I have used them with good results out to 1000yds. ( M1A/M14 and garand). Just something to think about. A 16" 308 with good barrel and properly assembled should be good for 600 yds or so and 300-400 with a solid rest on game. The draw back to the iron sights with the 16" barrel is going to be the short sight radious. Also the "clicks" may not be what they say they are due to the shorter sight radious.
If you want to know what your 16 inch barrel is doing at distance just chrono the load you're using and punch it into a ballistics calculater. Many can be found on the internet. They you'll know velocity, energy, trajectory, and much more. Just because a barrel is shorter doesn't mean the accuracy drops as the barrel length drops.
I never feel I'm over scoped. I appreciate the higher power.
I shoot 2 16 inch carbine, both are .223......I use a 1x4 on my modified carbine and irons on my service rifle.....both rifle get shot out t,o 600 yards..... the carbines are little better at close ranges (like under 300 yards) but the rifles (20 inch barrels) are better out to 800 yards.....
Go with a low power scope , it makes for quick target acquisition.........I personally like my irons......I can score well into the 280's with several X's with my irons at my local John granard match......and hold my own with the guys running scopes....
Aaron
Don't need a spotting scope. Actually was intending to be able to shoot long range, hasn't happened. Drop gets pretty severe after 250, I also use steel one piece mount. I have a 3x9 on the 30/30, holes are hard to see at 100.
I had no problem ringing an 8" gong every shot at 600 yards with my 16" DPMS 308 using German Issue mil-spec ammo shooting off bags. Early in the AM, no wind, no mirage. Scope is a Nightforce 2.5-10x32 mildot.
Upgraded match trigger is only mod.
It's not the barrel length ----- it's the nut behind the bolt !
I've shot 500 yard F-T/R matches with a 16" 5.56 AR and a Nikon 3-9X BDC reticle scope. To make it even more fun, the rifle was zeroed at 100yds and I was shooting through the BDC.
You should have little problem putting rounds on a man sized target at 5-600 yards with a decent 3-9X on your 308.
I use a SWFA 10x on my 26” 308 bolt, I shoot out to 800 a lot with it and 1200 on a couple occasions with it. How far do you want to shoot?
I dunno? I was seeing how far others thought it might go and match a scope to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by dk17hmr
With the 16" barrel you will go subsonic around 800 yards with the highest BC bullets. Less on light lower BC bullets. Some bullets tend to become unstable going through the transition and accuracy goes way south.
I was seeing how far others thought it might go and match a scope to that
Yes, with high BC jacketed you can go farther, cast, not so much. Your MV will be ~2400, cast BC for a 160-170 gr is probably .35 and drop gets big past 250. You can go farther but scope adjustment will be needed.
So it’s sounding like 250-500yds is about it with cast. I’m using the Lee 309-180 R mold and powder coating them. I figured 200yds would probably be about it without a lot of adjusting.
The scope would be for j-words, right now I’m just duplicating military ball, but plan to get into better bullets soon.
It's all about clarity and not about magnification. A good clear 10x will do better at range than a fuzzy 20x.
There's nothing more expensive when it comes to accurate extended range shooting than cheap optics.
Sawin: I have no problem hitting Silhouette Rams at 500 meters (550 yds) with my Ruger Scout Rifle with a 16" barrel and a Leupold 1-5x VX3. I now have a Leupold 3-9x VX-R mounted on that gun and I have shot a 4 3/4" 3 shot group on a Pink Ram at the Piru Gun Range.
I get a consistent 2780 fps from 45 gr of IMR 4895 with a 147 gr M80 Ball pulled bullets. These are nearly identical to the 155 gr Palma bullets Sierra makes for the .308 for shooting at 1000 yards.
I just attended an "Intro to Precision Rifle" Class at Front Sight last weekend, and was reassured that the .308 was perfectly capable of making first round hits at 1200 yards.
You choice of a 4-12x Bushnell is a good one for your intended purpose. The higher magnification optics 6-18+ will cause problems with Mirage as temps increase. However the beauty of a variable power optic is that you can turn the magnification down.
As far as optics go the more serious you get about shooting long range the more your optics will cost you. Just about any rifle that is consistently 1MOA or less will be accurate enough to hit at long distances. The optics on the other hand will make or break that effort.
The biggest difference between inexpensive optics and the expensive stuff is the Glass the lenses are made from and the accuracy and repeatability of the internal mechinism.
The Glass is all about light transmission and distortion. The more expensive the optic the higher the light transmission and the less distortion there is to the image.
However, and this is a big "however," there is a thing called "diminishing returns." What this means is that the cost goes up exponentially the closer you get to so called perfect.
that Bushnell optic you are looking at probably passes 92% of the light it takes in. A Schmidt and Bender scope that costs nearly $3K will probably transmit 94-95 %. I doubt many can discern the difference between the two with the naked eye.
Also you must consider your intended use and decide how much you are willing to spend and how much use you will get from it. It is pointless to buy a $3000 scope, put it on a $500 rifle, and then put it in your safe. If you aren't going to get the use out of it, it is pointless to spend the money for the better optic.
If you are going to put a $100 scope on the gun and then put it in the safe, you aren't losing anything of substance. And if you do use it for shooting at 200-300 yards it will probably be better than you really need.
I look at "Value in Use" as one of my primary factors when buying equipment. In other words can I get my monies worth out of this product? It is a lot easier to get $100 worth of use out of a scope, than it is to get $3000 worth out of it.
That Bushnell scope is a perfect fit for your gun and your intended use and pretty much any other use you could put that gun to in the future.
Good Luck.
Randy