Because of the normal long throat on T/C's 30 Herrett I thought I'ld try some 195-200 gn bullets
Anyone try anything this heavy ? and care to share you loads ??
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Because of the normal long throat on T/C's 30 Herrett I thought I'ld try some 195-200 gn bullets
Anyone try anything this heavy ? and care to share you loads ??
Fill the case with 4227. ... felix
I think they gave the 30 Herrett a fairly slow twist, if so they may not work well.
One way to find out though.
All of the post 90's 30 Cal T/C bbl have a 1-10 twistQuote:
Originally Posted by Bullshop
felix; :groner:
When all else fails, look at the manuals, pick the nearest heavest bullet and start with their lowest listing.
I think the manual I have list a 130gr jacketed for the heaviest in the Herrett. I would back off a bit more than there lowest and than work back up.
Looking for sub sonic? or just cheap plinking?
I have yet to shoot my herrett, waiting on a scope for it, so I am no real help.
Must be an OLD manual, All bullet Manf. manuals list data up to 150 Gn. SPEER # 10 goes to 165, RCBS lists their old 180 gn. designQuote:
Originally Posted by dk17hmr
With the length of the +- 200 gn molds I have, I'll need about 1350 fps to still be stable at 220 yds .
Been there, done that....works great if you need to shoot around corners [smilie=l:
the older data i have only goes to 150-170-ish , i've been playing with boolits in that vicinity but not heaver , a note , my 14" BBL had a long throat ( did i say long ? i meant looooonnng lolz ) , the 10 " one i kept has a short throat
The short throat is the one I have had experience with. Lots of powder space was taken up by seating a 180 boolit used for fire-forming new cases. The load was a full case of 4227 which was 18 grains. If your barrel is free-bored, a full case of powder will be too much. The various 680 powders would be my choice. ... felix
??? a short throat aka;free bore, requires the bullet to be seated deeper in the case thus taking up case capasity and increasing pressures, a long throat allows the bullets to be seated futher out, sometimes a problem with T/C's if you want the bullet to ingrave into the lands One of the reasons the Herrett can get the veloicy's it gets is because of the "generous" free bore that allows the use of slow pistol powders like 4227.
I'll just start with the starting loads RCBS lists for their 180 bullet
Wayne, it is imperative that you know your gun throughout before you load for it. This includes case capacity AFTER a projectile is seated. Pressure is caused by the expansion of powder and the movement of the projectile. Therefore, you must know the volume and type of powder, including the primer, in the case to curtail the maximum forces on the gun during the excursion of the projectile. Moving a projectile into and out of a case has no bearing on dynamic pressure having no powder. ... felix
From TFS 34-4: Cast Bullets for Handgun Silhouette, D. Smith III
NEI 175-308GC, 178-308GC, 180.308GC NRA, 197.308GC recommended for 1-12" twist barrels.
"The above bullets will not usually give satisfactory 200 meter accuracy in the T/C barrels of 14" twist, so for those guns stick to the 160-gr. or lighter cast bullets."
The load table in the article stops at 150-gr. bullets for the .30 Herrett, but does have data for the .30 IHMSA (150, 178 and 197gr), .30-30 WCF (115 and 150-gr) and .25-35 WCF (100 gr).
From TFS 51-26: The .30 Herrett Contender: A Cast Bullet Combination, G. Latham
RCBS 30-180-FN, 192 gr., 2.42" OAL
2400 - 15.5 - 1489 fps 10" barrel
2400 - 17.5 - 1629 10"
H4227 - 16.5 - 1476 10"/1620 14"
H4227 - 18.5 - 1615 10"/1733 14"
IMR4198 - 21.5 - 1750 14"
IMR4198 - 23.5 - 1859 14"
Reloder7 - 22.5 - 1586 10"/1765 14"
Reloder7 - 24.5 - 1704 10"/1846 14"
IMR3031 - 27.0 - 1765 14"
IMR3031 - 29.0 - 1947 14"
H4895 - 28.5 - 1876 14"
H4895 - 30.5 - 2010 14"
H335 - 29.0 - 1701 10"/1882 14"
H335 - 31.0 - 1806 10"/1989 14"
Cases: reformed Federal
Primers: CCI-200
Temperature: 55-70 degrees
"The 192 gr. RCBS bullet is the only one with a long enough body to contact the rifling and still be securely held in the case neck."
Notes: 1-14" twist, case length 1.615" due to long chamber. Freebore 0.460"
From TFS 57-18: Cast Bullet Wildcats: The .30 Herrett LN (Long Neck), F. Asmus
FBW Model J action, special .30 Herrett reamer with standard .30-30 WCF neck and throat, 1-12" twist. Author recommends forming cases from .375 Winchester brass.
Lee C309-200R - 24.0 - WW748 - mixed, reformed .30-30 WCF cases
From TFS 125-5: The Mail Box, M. Curtess
.30 Herrett rifle based on Star Rolling Block - 225-gr (Lyman 311284?) - 23.5 - Pyrodex P - "some cereal filler (as a gas check)"; "…more accurate than the best smokeless powder loads I have tested."
From TFS 144-6: Some Curious Facts, M. Curtess
"Due to the extravagantly long throat in the .30 Herrett (rifle based on Star rolling block) the best accuracy, by far, has been with really long bullets; Lyman 311041 and 311291 are the shortest which will shoot with any predictability at 100 yds. and beyond. Since I have found best results with softer alloys, they are weighing 180-plus grains ready to load, and optimum has proven to be the Lee C309-200R, Lyman 311284 and 311332, with all going from 193 grs. (311332) to well over 200 grs. for the other two."
"My notes make it clear that 18 grs. of all powders from IMR-4198 to AA2460 will be the most accurate with all bullets from 170 to 200 grains. Fourteen grains of all powders from WC820/H110 to XMP5744 will be best with 150 to 170 grain bullets, and 24 grains of all powders from IMR-4064 through AA3100 will be best with 200 to 225 grain bullets." "…Actual charge variations are within one grain always…"
The author also states that the optimum charge weight for cast bullets in all .30 caliber factory chamberings for H-380 speed surplus WC852 can be determined by taking 75% of the charge found by filling the case to the bottom of the neck. For a 225-gr. bullet in the .30 Herrett rifle with cases formed from R-P brass, this is 24.0 grains. I can personally vouch for this procedure with the 7.62x54mmR and 200-gr LGC bullets in terms of accuracy.
Judging from what I've read, you will need to find out the chamber length and freebore of your personal barrel.
am at least glad in knowing that i didnt have the only short throated one out there ! lolz
wayne , sometimes i get thrown for a loop - either by the way i read or the way i interpret things or even tech jargon .... simply put what felix stated was that a case full with a boolit seated deeper is less powder than a case full with the boolit seated out , in this case there's enough difference to make the difference between a max load and a overload
sometimes i miss the longer barrel , especially now that i'm more into boolits , back then i was mostly running lighter bullets ( u know the best for performance for the caliber and velocity levels ...) and i freely admit that i have learned alot since then , like how much i love it's big brother ( mine has a decent throat ie; i can touch it if i want with the boolit )
BERDAN III
THANK YOU, running a stability program for a .30 1.165" long bullet and useing a BC on .300 RCBS 200 Sil & NOE 311299 I need to start them at about 1500 fps to still be stable at 220 yds ,about 1200 fps in a 1-10 twist bbl.
:bigsmyl2: I have a 15" 1-8 30 Reece comming so a whole new project :bigsmyl2:
I puchaced a rifle a while back thinking it was a carcano with a bull barrel. after taking it 2 a reputable Gunsmith, he informed me it was a 30 herret. He said the man that built this rifle was no amature and very nicely done! Due to the fact I cannot find ammo or reload ammo for the gun I would like to sell it! You can contact me with any questions at 309-264-0755
Thanx for looking
Tim
Wayne, try using max loads for 300 whisper as a starting point. I believe the 30 has about 12% more case capacity. I would have to check my notes to be sure though.
I built a 30 Herret Rimless with a rebated rim (I used 22 Nosler brass necked-up and cut-down and my current 5.56 bolt carrier group) AR15 carbine this year. Jut finished fireforming the cases yesterday and will be loading LEE 155gr bullets to start my accuracy loads since its 1:8 barrel twist will probably prefer these or heavier bullets.