I believe the cast lead rifle boolit is the most effective projectile in the world.

I use my 500 S & W with 95:5 Pb:Sn subsonic 600 grainers and a suppressor at ranges <100 yards out back of my house. I don't get near that devastation, but with head shots they go down instantly. Back in November I took a muley in the Ft. Peck area of Montana at 883 yards with a Hornady 143 grain ELD-X using my 6.5 Creedmoor. One shot, cold barrel, double lunged him. Ain't no way in the world his head would be mounted on my wall right now and his meat would be in my freezer with a cast bullet from any rifle. Later in the season I took 2 more whitetails with my Thompson Center flintlock at ~60 yards out behind the house in PA. That's a more reasonable range for cast lead. If lead was as good as jacketed, it would be still be in use by all the militaries in the world. Its a great hobby, just keep in mind the limitations and work within those bounds so your harvest is done ethically.

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Originally Posted by mpkunz

Back in November I took a muley in the Ft. Peck area of Montana at 883 yards with a Hornady 143 grain ELD-X using my 6.5 Creedmoor.

Its a great hobby, just keep in mind the limitations and work within those bounds so your harvest is done ethically.

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These two sentences don't belong in the same post.

Agree
Lead Bullets Technology
45/70 might get that done

why would you shoot an animal almost 900 yds away.
was he watching you with binoculars?

Half a mile? Wow. Maybe I shouldn't be second guessing myself when they are only at two hundred.

The photo is gone from the very first post showing the destruction it did to the thread starter's deer. Can someone repost it or mods fix so I can see it? Thanks

I tinkered a lot to find an alloy that would hold the speed and pressures for a couple of small caliber cartridges and still expand without breaking up .
30 cal , 200 gr 197-199 remaining .610 dia , impact speed in powdered dg clay approximately 1700 fps .
Attachment 223384

I have a picture of a "properly" constructed exit hole from a way down loaded 264 WM down to a fiesty 6.5×55 and I'm not crazy about the foot sized hole .

I know that a big hole leaks .
If a bullet expands in addition to flat point shock then more of the energy is put in the target .
Bigger holes leak more than smaller holes .
If a smaller caliber makes a bigger hole it's a success .

If it wrecks more meat than you think it should slow it down or cast it harder or softer or tougher . These are the beauties of the self cast bullet over a commercial cast or jacketed or monolithic copper/brass etc . We can pick and choose shape , weight , MV , terminal proformance , and many other points .

"know that a big hole leaks .
If a bullet expands in addition to flat point shock then more of the energy is put in the target .
Bigger holes leak more than smaller holes .
If a smaller caliber makes a bigger hole it's a success .

If it wrecks more meat than you think it should slow it down or cast it harder or softer or tougher . These are the beauties of the self cast bullet over a commercial cast or jacketed or monolithic copper/brass etc . We can pick and choose shape , weight , MV , terminal proformance , and many other points ."

All the mental masturbation and racetrack reasoning that goes on at times on this forum, and it's just as simple as that,,,,,,,.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mpkunz

I took a muley in the Ft. Peck area of Montana at 883 yards with a Hornady 143 grain ELD-X using my 6.5 Creedmoor....just keep in mind the limitations and work within those bounds so your harvest is done ethically.

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Hornady's ballistic calculator says 880 ft lbs at that distance with a max charge. I'm guessing little or no bullet expansion. Kudos for your long range work, but I'm thinking the vast majority of hunters are taking big game much closer.

DEAD THREAD...... RESURRECTED!

Any link to the OP's photo that was the subject of all this discussion?

I'm curious.

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Originally Posted by Beeks

DEAD THREAD...... RESURRECTED!

Any link to the OP's photo that was the subject of all this discussion?

I'm curious.

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Photobucket ate it.

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Originally Posted by runfiverun

why would you shoot an animal almost 900 yds away.
was he watching you with binoculars?

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Why? Advanced stage of egotism.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beeks

DEAD THREAD...... RESURRECTED!

Any link to the OP's photo that was the subject of all this discussion?

I'm curious.

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I believe that picture is long gone but I do remember when it was posted, from what I remember the front shoulders were torn to bits and much meat destroyed. I think the OP proved his point that cast is a better killer but maybe a little too much of a good thing. Regards Stephen

That is what I recall as well, OP said he should dial it down a bit for less meat destruction. But later he took his ball and bat and went home.

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Originally Posted by Hamish

"know that a big hole leaks .
If a bullet expands in addition to flat point shock then more of the energy is put in the target .
Bigger holes leak more than smaller holes .
If a smaller caliber makes a bigger hole it's a success .

If it wrecks more meat than you think it should slow it down or cast it harder or softer or tougher . These are the beauties of the self cast bullet over a commercial cast or jacketed or monolithic copper/brass etc . We can pick and choose shape , weight , MV , terminal proformance , and many other points ."

All the mental masturbation and racetrack reasoning that goes on at times on this forum, and it's just as simple as that,,,,,,,.

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YAR! Well put, sir.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mpkunz

I use my 500 S & W with 95:5 Pb:Sn subsonic 600 grainers and a suppressor at ranges <100 yards out back of my house. I don't get near that devastation, but with head shots they go down instantly. Back in November I took a muley in the Ft. Peck area of Montana at 883 yards with a Hornady 143 grain ELD-X using my 6.5 Creedmoor. One shot, cold barrel, double lunged him. Ain't no way in the world his head would be mounted on my wall right now and his meat would be in my freezer with a cast bullet from any rifle. Later in the season I took 2 more whitetails with my Thompson Center flintlock at ~60 yards out behind the house in PA. That's a more reasonable range for cast lead. If lead was as good as jacketed, it would be still be in use by all the militaries in the world. Its a great hobby, just keep in mind the limitations and work within those bounds so your harvest is done ethically.

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seems to me that there were longer shots than your's taken in the buffalo hunting days
so to make in irresponsible claim that cast lead is limited to a certain range is well
rather Limited

A head shot with a 1860Army lead round ball made for a bad day one deer season. The pure lead busted the skull so bad the buck had to be drug out by his back legs. Pure lead smashes flat on impact with bone at pistol velocity. Glad to see some old school materials eing used in modern times.

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Originally Posted by ItllKeal

A head shot with a 1860Army lead round ball made for a bad day one deer season. The pure lead busted the skull so bad the buck had to be drug out by his back legs. Pure lead smashes flat on impact with bone at pistol velocity. Glad to see some old school materials eing used in modern times.

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Nothing new under the sun. Thanks

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Originally Posted by waksupi

These two sentences don't belong in the same post.

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Hummm I'd have to agree:coffeecom

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Originally Posted by 303Guy

Wow! What a great thread! Thanks, goodsteel.

I've been a bit out of the picture but am trying to get back into things, so this was a great start (although I've only waded halfway through). I only have 303's and am trying to relate what the 358 can do to what a 303 can do. I paper patch so I can drive softer alloys a little faster (I only have one rifle with a bore good enough to shoot cast seriously) but one the boolit is launched, it's the same as a plain cast.

I am finding that stronger alloys are needed for higher velocity due to nose slump and base upset into the entry cone of the chamber resulting in a damaged boolit. I did a test with alloy strength and found a balance between enough upset and not enough. Trouble is, I had to use shotgun powder in the test to get a low enough velocity to capture the boolit intact.

Attachment 73296

See how the second boolit mid-section upset into the grooves? Even the knurling has been ironed out right up to the ogive. The knurling is there to grip the patch - there is no knurling in the middle because the file doesn't reach there as the boolit changes diameter there. I have a soft alloy in which the nose upset into the bore in front of the patch.

How would that flat nose perform on deer?

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I took a buck with my P1914, .303 British. I used a hard cast 205 grain gas-check bullet from a Lyman .314299 mold, running about 2,000 fps. From past experience hunting chucks in my youth. I discover that a full jacket bullet under 100 yards would literally explode a chuck. I use to think it was the bullets energy that did the trick. Since I’ve come to think it is the unstable wobble of the bullet before it straightens up at 100 yds. After a 100 yd I was back to taking head shots on chucks. The buck I shot was under 100 yds and I was in my tree platform so I sighted on the point of the shoulder. The bullet struck about 1 1/2" back of the joint. It pierced the scapula and seem to have rotated to blow an inch square hole through a rib and exited out the floor of the rib cage. When I did the field dressing, I open up the chest cavity it was filled with small bits and pieces of lung floating in blood. The heart was still pretty well intact but was missing part of a ventricle.