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I have an opportunity to purchase a cartridge specific Ideal tong tool from the late 1800s at a good price, locally. I was wondering, even though a tong tool works lead and brass, do the internal dimensions tend to go out of specification over time so that the ammunition is larger than it should be?
Thanks in advance for your advice!
If there was any excessive wear in the tool, I think it would be in the handle/hinge pin fit. But I would size a case and see if it's "too big". I wouldn't think there would be any die wear to speak of unless the dies were used on multiple tens of thousands of rounds. I have an Ideal tool/die set in 44 Special but far from an expert on the tool. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will post soon...
I have a number of such tools and I have not found that brass and lead change the original dimensions of the hardened steel tools.
I have quite a few Ideal tools, which I use regularly and some of which date from the 1890s My experience mirrors Char-Gar's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Char-Gar
Jim
The only wear I've ever seen on tong tools, was on the caliber specific 310's. The wear was from using the the priming chamber as well as the bullet sizing dies. Both of these items when use are steel to steel use, and from what I've seen the die components are a little harder than the handles.
Scott
The only legitimate wear I've seen on the iron handles is on the knuckle where the hard steel push rod of the priming chamber bears against it. With the old tools you mention in the OP, this would not be a problem since priming is accomplished at its own station and the steel teat on the handle pushes against the primer... no wear likely. Damage is far more likely to be from rust and neglect than any amount of wear that would be likely.
Froggie
I would worry more about the wear on the hinge pin and holes more than the dies. the pin and holes wear is magnified due to the desighn of.
Sometimes one with the nonadjustable chamber that was heavily used in antiquity (or one that’s been allowed to rust inside and has been polished out) will give a lighter or nonexistent crimp on the shell. To be fair, some batches of semi-obsolete shells are shorter than the standard lengths of the old days, causing the same problem. If you have the single- or double-adjustable chamber (or don’t need to crimp) this won’t be an issue.
Otherwise, the things are bricks. I worry more about rust and abuse in the mould cavity than any prospect of the tool wearing out. Of course, I use them (some in NRA Beat-Up condition) occasionally for nostalgia’s sake rather than routinely for high volume production. The ammunition so made shoots as well as any made by other means.
“Otherwise the things are bricks.”Quote:
Originally Posted by Bent Ramrod
^^^^^THIS^^^^^
If it comes to you in reasonable condition and you don’t devise some very creative way to abuse it, an Ideal or Winchester tong tool should still be good for your grandkids. Put a little oil into the hinge joint every now and then and TRY to wear it out. Go ahead I challenge you. [smilie=l:
Froggie
I suppose if an original steel frame 310 were used to load maybe 200,000 rounds of unlubed cases it MIGHT acquire some measurable amount of wear in the sizer. It's not likely any 310 has ever reloaded that many rounds tho; I'd get it and smile! :)
I regularly use an Ideal and a Winchester tool from the 1880's for demonstrations and camp fire reloading. No problems yet. I have a tong tool I bought used in 1968 and it is still going strong use it with the decapper for wax loads every week.