I'm losing steam trying to develop accurate cast 9mm.

I started casting and reloading in 9mm and i went through bunch of powders, projectiles, different COL, crimps etc but i dont think I will ever get it to be as accurate as other calibers. Yesterday i tried new load with 3.8-4.2gr of Vectan GM3 under Lee 356-125-2R and i was getting about 3" groups @ 7 yards. My other loads produce about 2" groups maybe a tad smaller but its still not what my RIA Tac Ultra in 10mm can do or even my Ruger GP100 MC. My best 5 shot group from RIA ended up being under 1".

To compare I shot my 9mms (Canik TP9 SFX , P320) on steel 10" target with 3" free hanging bullseye @ 25 yards standing two hand grip unsupported. I could hit bullseye but not consistently with my 9s. I changed to my RIA and I shot 11 bullseyes in a row before I missed one and that wasnt a one time accurance because I was getting 5 , 6 shot strings without a miss all day long. I was having so much fun with that gun I shot all my cast 40 and 10mm ammo I had with me. I just couldnt believe the difference. I guess I kept thinking a lot of that was me but now I'm starting to think thats not the case. I dont know if I could do better shooting 9mm FMJs.

I'm not one to give up and I've been working on 9mm for a while. Every time I go to the range which is at least once
a week I have a new 9mm batch to test. Sized to .3575 PCed and water dropped I'm guessing BHN around 16 or so. Slower powders seem to be more accurate with HS6 being most accurate for me so far. I also tried TG, W231/HP38, WSF, Unique, HS6, Power Pistol, AutoComp, Vectan GM3. I still have Vectan A0 that i didnt try yet so thats next.

I'm not looking for any specific tips here i think I went through them all so I'm just venting at this point.

As time goes by I'm starting to think that if you want really accurate handgun you need a solid 1911 or a good revolver with a fairly heavy bullet. 9mm just wont do that especially with cast but maybe its just me. I dont know [smilie=b:

There's always that one more thing to try. Don't give up. Taking a break is fine... For as long as you need. If you never give up, you never lose.

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9mm has a tapered case, the major cause of failure is over-crimping and downsizing the boolit.

1 slug the barrel or chamber cast and find what you're dealing with I have a 1911 Llama that slugs out at .358 so it requires special size cast.

I use the Lee powder through die to open the case and bell the mouth.

I seat and crimp with one die, crimping onto to the point where when the cartridge is pushed against my bench the boolit doesn't move then I use the Lee factory crimp die to just barely kiss the case to smooth the crimp (I pull and check to make sure I'm not downsizing the boolit.
I have had good results with 9 mm BE 3.8 grn 125 grn (Which is below Lyman low safe amt) YMMV, don't try any posted data without confirming it's safe with a published loading manual.

I have discovered if I use as big a diameter bullet as will chamber, a compressed load of slow powder (currently 10B101) not resizing the cases, and a taper crimp to hold it together and feed right has made a big difference in the accuracy of my 9mm ammo. And I use that same Lee bullet you have.

The 9mm Luger seems to be one of the more difficult cartridges to mate with cast bullets.
Personally I have found that the pistols are as much of the problem as the cartridge. The barrels and chambers are all over the place in terms of dimensions.
The 120 grain truncated cone [TC] profiles work well in a lot of 9mm pistols. The groove diameter of the barrel and the throat are also critical factors.

I don't think the powder type is as important as bullet diameter and COL when it comes to short range accuracy. If you're having problems at 7 yards I would suggest looking at factors other than powder type.

I load cast bullets for the 9mm but I gave up on trying to load cast 9mm bullets for more than one pistol. It was just too frustrating to find the compromise between two or more pistols.

Pick ONE 9mm pistol, pick ONE bullet (I would suggest a 120ish grain TC) slug your bore and size your bullets appropriately (you'll likely find the bore closer to .357" than .355" !).
Then pick ONE powder. Then play with cartridge overall length and find what feeds in that ONE pistol. (The 9mm doesn't tolerate deep seating well - stay on the long side)
THEN, fine tune your powder weight within accepted published limits.

Your goal is to end up with a cartridge that feeds in your pistol, delivers the best accuracy, cycles the action reliably and does all of that within accepted pressure limits.

With ONE pistol and ONE cartridge, it's possible to find that compromise.

GOOD LUCK !

I cast 122 flat points using a magma mold. Hitek coated range scrap sized to .3575 in my cz shadow 2.

This was shot at 50 yards. That's a 4 inch black circle.

Attachment 228924

They shoot tighter in my 38 super 2011. I love them.

I have found across multiple 9mm platforms, that .357 dia coated projectile is your friend (and just kissing the case mouth closed to .379). Vectan Prima V is a pretty good powder also. But I mainly use it for 9mm/147gr loads.

Have you tried jacketed bullets? What are the results with them?
What is your bore size? Some 9mm need .359 boolits.
You may not be neck sizing the brass large enough and the cast boolit is being resized during seating. Factory dies many times are too small for fatter cast boolits. Also you may be crimping too much and resizing your boolits.
Back up to about 15 yards and see if any of your boolits are keyholding.
I don' the think your problem is powder related.

Does the gun shoot jacketed well? I feel your pain. I've been using these for my 38/357 and 44 mag from this same company: http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant...y_Code=ZBJ-9MM at $.10 each its hard to beat.

I did help out a family member running into the same problems with 9mm. He didn't mess with cast bullets, but still had problems with jacketed bullets. My usual fixes did nothing for him. He was already more meticulous than I usually get in brass prep. I also find best results with heavier bullets, and figured a 147 grain with bluedot would work. Nope, and not 800x either. I looked through my bin of powders, and decided to have him try Unique. It turns out a 125 grain .356" HAP bullet with Unique is the winning combo for him, about 2" at 25 yards off a rest. Note that all .355" bullets were terrible, on the order of 6" at 25 yards. If you are not shooting rested, you can't compare consistently what the gun can do. If I missed it, are you shooting only one 9mm handgun or multiple? If it's only one, consider a problem with the gun. This same family member fought a Glock 34 until he found the sights were moving. A red dot on top fixed it, but it still wasn't that good. I think he found that combo of HAP and Unique with that gun, before selling it. His next one shot almost anything well, but the HAP and Unique were still #1. Sorry I can't help with anything cast specific. I'd take a look at brass sizing bullets down, or maybe try air cooled bullets (they could be a lot harder than you think). I know in 327 federal I've been trying soft 20-1 alloy, and plain base almost always gets sized down by the brass. I bought an expander plug from NOE .001" over bullet diameter, and and that works well.

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Originally Posted by megasupermagnum

I bought an expander plug from NOE .001" over bullet diameter, and and that works well.

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OVER diameter? Pooh. I just ordered one .001 under. Seemed like the thing to do. Guess I'll just keep my fingers crossed.

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Yes, NOE recommends .001" over diameter, and that has worked OK for me. Also consider that there are both pistol and rifle plugs. As far as I'm aware, the only difference seems to be that the rifle plugs have a longer straight section. For 9mm, I'd get a .359" pistol plug to run .358" cast bullets.

OK, I am going to re-post my same response that I made to another thread.

Take your time and read it. Then do it. As corny and funny as it may sound, it is probably the best solution.



9 mm can be very frustrating. Do not let that put you off. The solution is simple. There 10 easy steps to the 9mm.


Step 1: Try what you have and what you think might work. Take notes. You might get lucky.

Step 2: If step 1 did not work, tell us exactly what you did.

Step 3: Sort through the 50 suggestions, pick one.

Step 4: Try it and hope you get lucky.

Step 5: If it did not work, tell us exactly what you did and what happened.

Step 6: Sort through the 40 suggestions. Pick a new suggestion.

Step 7: Try it and hope you get lucky.

Step 8: If it did not work, go back to step 5.

Step 9: After you get something that works, assume you are an expert and provide suggestions when some else shares their problems.

Step 10: After a bunch of newbies ignore your suggestions, come to understand that the 9mm is too finicky to ever be simple and work the same way for anybody else.

Pull one of the rounds you loaded and mic it. I bet you the lead is too soft and is getting sized down when you are seating. This will cause keyholing and accuracy issues.

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My Quest for an accurate 9mm cast load is temporarily suspended while I'm back to enjoying the easy-to-get accuracy of the .38 Special and the .45 ACP. Just yesterday I shot up some 200swc/5grs Red Dot loads in my crunchy-triggered Ruger P97. Yep; easily chewed up a 1" targdot at 30 feet two handed.

My only 9mm is a Berretta 92, accuracy was always lackluster to say the least. jacketed and cast both. I tuned on the pistols fitting and trigger it got a little better but nothing near what my 1911s in 38 spl, 48 super,10mm and 45 were capable of. With lead it was a chore to clean also. ( I was shooting laser cast bullets). This was with the standard .355-.356 dia bullets. I was in cabellas and grabed a box of the 125 rn bullets wasn't paying attention and got the .358 dia ( actually measured .3585) these shot exceptionally well over a charge that just reliably functioned the pistol.

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Originally Posted by Texas by God

My Quest for an accurate 9mm cast load is temporarily suspended while I'm back to enjoying the easy-to-get accuracy of the .38 Special and the .45 ACP. Just yesterday I shot up some 200swc/5grs Red Dot loads in my crunchy-triggered Ruger P97. Yep; easily chewed up a 1" targdot at 30 feet two handed.

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My experience with the 9mm was different (remember step 10). Leading was terrible, but accuracy was good. Heck, even with leading the Glock 17 seemed to shoot as good as I could squeeze off rounds with the mushy "Glock trigger". Eventually after getting to step 8 a few times, I tried some suggestions that worked. Now, all is good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by megasupermagnum

Yes, NOE recommends .001" over diameter, and that has worked OK for me. Also consider that there are both pistol and rifle plugs. As far as I'm aware, the only difference seems to be that the rifle plugs have a longer straight section. For 9mm, I'd get a .359" pistol plug to run .358" cast bullets.

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What about tension, though? If it's over diameter, you're relying on crimp alone to hold the boolit in place.

Edit: Well,I might still be ok. Grove diameter is .3564, I size at .358, and ordered a .357 plug.

Try some decent 115 fmj. As posted, 9 guns are all over the place.

One thing no one here has even mentioned and it plays a bigger role than anything and effects everything.

Case length!

9mm case length is all over the place. If you truly want a accurate load then sort your brass by manufacturer and then trim them all to the same length. That is the only way you are going to get the same crimp every time. And the same headspace every time. And the same bullet release every time.