So let me get this right,with paper patching your basically duplicating the same kinda effect you get with a tank sabot round,your able to push soft alloy way faster then other methods AND it's beyond accurate if done properly?
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So let me get this right,with paper patching your basically duplicating the same kinda effect you get with a tank sabot round,your able to push soft alloy way faster then other methods AND it's beyond accurate if done properly?
Think of it as a fabric coating on the bullet. Add some lube to reduce friction. Tried it in 30/30 and quit, labor and feeding problems. PC or HiTek works fine and much less PITA. Have fun if you want to experiment.
The old school paper patching was developed with Black Powder Cartridge ... it's been around for a long time ... Dixie Gun Works used to have a primer on how to do it in their catalog . Several different ways to do it ...it was the "powder coating" of it's day ...it took the place of a conventional wax-grease lube .
Something "improved" you may wish to look at for use with smokeless powder cartridges is patching a lead and gas checked boolit with Teflon Plumbers Tape .
The best instructions on how to do this are in the book " The Winchester Lever Legacy" by Clyde "Snooky" Williamson in 1988 . In 1987 Clyde applied for a U.S. Patent for a "Bullet Sheath of Teflon to encompass lead alloy bullets from crimping groove to the bullet base " .
You might be able to do a google search and find a pdf of the process and see how he did it .
I must admit to trying it with my 30-30 Winchester ...I had the book , Clyde's loading data , results and how-to do-it ...it's easier than powder coating or paper patching and works . I never tried paper patching ...it looked realy ...tedious and not easy to do . The Teflon tape wrap was as easy as eating a good slice pie . The Teflon tape wrap eliminated all leading at some respectable velocities .
Accuracy with the Teflon Jacket was also much better than just plain lubricated .
Amazon has the book for $82.00 ... and if you are into shooting and reloading all the Winchester Cartridges in their lever guns ... this book (or pdf) is nice to have .
Clyde was from the Hermanville Mississippi area , had a big farm up there .
Gary
If you are paper patching smokeless cartridges, your projectile should be at bore diameter or just slightly bigger. The unpatched slug should be about a size on size fit if you try to start a bullet into the muzzle of your rifle. I swage my slugs so diameter and weight are extremely consistent. I have had great accuracy and performance in .358, .375 and .458. 350 grain paper patch 1% Antimony wire expands beautifully with full house loads in the Marlin 47-70 and is just a smasher on deer in the North Woods.
You can cut your patches in bulk with a paper cutter and if you use a rolling board as described in the book, "The Paper Jacket", patching goes pretty quickly once you get the hang of it.
In 35 Whelen and 350 Rem Mag, I ran paper patch loads at full jacketed bullet powder charges with solid accuracy.
It's definitely worth trying.
I paper patch the Lyman 330 gr Gould bullet for use in 45-70 smokeless loads. I size the bullet down to .454 in stages and then wrapped with 10lb bond paper that is slightly wetted prior to application. I use a double wrap around the bullet. The tail of the patch is twisted and the bullet is set aside to dry. Once they are dry I again twist the tail before I cut the tail off. The bullets are then lubed using Lee liquid alox and allowed to dry. The final step is to sized the patched bullets in a Lee .459 push through sizer die. When the bullets are seated in the case they are loaded to just short of the lands and then taper crimped using a 45-70 sizer die with the de-priming stem removed. They feed fine in my Browning 1886 and I have no problems with paper tearing during loading or feeding.
Bill
call me silly, but wouldn't this post generate more knowledgeable paper patching responses here: https://castboolits.gunloads.com/for...Paper-Patching
Kinda on the right track. Can shoot softer lead without the worry of barrel leading at speeds and beyond where barrel leading is assured. Only reason I started Patching? Have two rifles it works well with. 32-40 Win and 32 Special.
What he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by popper
There are a few rules you need to learn to get smokeless paper patching to work, and some cartridges are better candidates than others. But once you learn it, you can get very near jacketed bullet velocities and accuracy using cast bullets. I have not fired a jacketed bullet in quite a number of years and really haven't missed it. But it took several years of hard work to figure out how to make it function properly. Now that work is done and poking around here will get you started in the right direction easily.
I have one or two rust damaged bores and one very cordite eroded and worn bore. Paper patching makes it possible to extract usable accuracy out of such bores.
I will say though that at this point, I am disinclined to shoot target with paper patched boolits. I kinda get bored after patching just a few. But there was a time when I tried to patch for everything I had.
My very cordite eroded bore once shot a 10 shot MOA group at 100m (110yds) with it's 1800's Martini sights. A week ago I was seeing three front sights on it! Just a bad day with my eyes or just past my prime? Prior to this, I could aim at a finger nail black dot with those sights. But, I did discover on the same day that I can see through a ring front sight just fine so I shall be making a set of ring sights. But I digress.
I fire two or three five shot groups with this rifle at a session to test different loads. That' about as many as I want to patch and load up before it becomes a chore. This is my chosen field gun so I don't need to load more than I can tolerate.
But I can tell you one thing, patching in small numbers is for me quite fun. I don't load for high velocity. I just want enough grunt to do the job. My latest test is with a 195 gr wide hollow nose that expanded right back to the base, retained 99% boolit weight and penetrated 1 1/2 feet of medium. Recoil for this load is mild. Velocity is between 1700 and 1800 fps as far as I can determine.
I've had months of fun developing a suitable load. :Fire:
I have a few reasonable loads to choose from so far (but not being able to see the front sight made testing my last three loads a bit unreliable). :???:
If a fellow paper patches allot its easy to do. Problem is there are procedures to follow one after the other. Skipping or forgetting those procedures will in time change a fellows mind about doing. I really believe a beginner wanting to try would benefit tremendously his reading this whole column on Paper Patching.
I've never paper patched with smokeless, but I'm sure it's just its own special process. Paper patching with black powder is a piece of cake and the only way to go for me. Perhaps try black powder PPBs first?
I have PP bullets for My Browning BPCR 45-70 for awhile. Nice to shoot a period round with decent accuracy. I find prepping the rounds relaxing.
My shooting buddies had a good laugh when I brought out some PP 550 gr rounds for my 458 Win Mag. They looked nice and kicked hard.
Don
want to ask yall , do you cast your own bullets for paper patching or buy already cast bullets? If you were to buy them for 45-70, what would you buy? and from who?
What type of paper do you all use? couple years ago I bought some cotton paper, but some have said to try using tracer paper? What do ya'll use?
I do not have any black powder, or any black powder substitutes. How about using smokless powder?
I have a Henry 45-40, lever action, and an old H & R SHIKARI single shot. want to try paper patching for both rifles,
I cast my own slicks for paper patching. "Slicks" are just bullets without lube grooves.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbear1950
I only load with real black powder, the substitutes are all a version of smokeless powder, I do not like smokeless PPB cartridges.
To me, it makes the most sense to at least attempt to build cartridges the way it was done in the later half of the 19th century, when just about every rifle cartridge employed a PPB sitting atop black powder.
The only really critical criteria for PPB black powder cartridges is the diameter of the slick, the thickness of the paper, and when the slick is wrapped the resulting PPB needs to bore ride the lands at almost the same diameter, or a tiny bit under thereabouts. Currently I'm building PPB BP cartridges for both a real late 19th century Remington rolling block and a Henry S/S, both chambered for .45-70 Gov't. cartridges. I'm using an Accurate .444" mold that drops 1:16 alloy at 416 grains. I use Seth Cole 7# "onion skin" paper, cut into a parallelogram shape and wrapped twice around the slick, with about 1/8" of the paper folded around the slick's base. The PPB sits over a .060" LDPE wad that I cut with a Cornell wad press, over 75.5 grains of Swiss 1-1/2F compacted black powder that's compressed about .062", over a Federal 210 match primer. It all works quite well.
You have a PM incoming ....
An easy way to get started patching for smokeless 45-70 rifles is to use bullets designed for the 45 Colt. .452" is perfect for patching up to .460" and then just load them like normal bullets, but jammed into the lands a bit. A 300 grain pistol bullet will hit reasonably close to the sights and be very effective on anything it hits. Remember, the rules for patching with smokeless and with black are different and not interchangeable.