Can I shoot a gas check design with out the gas check???

Yes, you can. But how accurate it will be depends on the design and the gun and load. If you go for moderate to slow speeds it tends to work better than if you push them to the max. IME the faster you push them, the more problems you have. Given a boolit that fits the gun to start with and a gas check shank that isn't boogered up (has a smooth and even circumference) they often they will shoot rather well, especially at short range.

I'm sure Ken will add the relevant posts as he can as there is a lot of discussion on this already and on how a GC functions. But, that paragraph will at least get it started.

And so it begins! This thread is now a sticky.

I also have questions about this. What is the reason that it would only perform satisfactorily at sort range? If the lead is filling the mold correctly, wouldn't the boolit normaly have a

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gas check shank that... has a smooth and even circumference

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If the boolit is a good cast, why would it being a gas check boolit make any difference? I'm glad someone posted this question.

Randy

Funny how it is a small world.
I ordered a 6 cavity mold for 357 swc not noticing that it was a GC design.
The boolit has 3 driving bands with 2 grease grooves and 1 crimp groove and I was thinking, "What is the difference between a BB and a GC without the check?"
I had no 38 cal gas checks and could not use the lyman450 because the lube would nastyfy the boolit. So I resolved to use TL and size through a push through sizer.

Well, they worked great in my GP-100. I'm no world class pistolero but, these boolits were as good as anything else I ever used.:bigsmyl2:

A short boolit might need the gas check to act as a driving band and help stabilize the boolit. Evidently longer boolits with plenty od driving band surface don't care.

Have been using a 31141 for years in 06 /308 & 30-30 both with and without gc. only accuracy difference seems to show up with loads over 1600-1700 fps then the gc installed is more accurate. Squib and low velocity squirrel loads with no gc go 3/4 to 1-1/4 at 50 yds in 30-30.
Pretty much the same as Bret4207 said

hello
I shoot lot of pb and gc in pistols and rifles just keep them slow 35 rem with plain base 158 gr hp great deer load50-75 yd with unique 15 gr also in 308 160 gr no check have used 2400 love shooting reduced loads as I get old don't that need for speed.
Don

:-D Thanks from an old reloader and someone who is just getting equipped to cast.

Welcome to the forum. I have learned much here and been entertained as well.

exile

It will shoot fine at pressures where you dont need a gas check....Buck

I think all folks that have a need for this information should send a PM or email to Waksupi. He has vast knowledge in this area and would probably share it with everyone asking. Waksupi helped me with a great problem I had while casting. I had asked about what to do with all the sprues I had accumulated after years of casting. I had 7 or 8 five gallon buckets full in the garage. Waksupi (Ric) told me that they were of no use and in fact could be hazerdus to the environment. He was nice enough to allow me to package and ship them all to him for disposal. We have some really thoughtful members on this board.

Nighthunter

Good morning
A gas check design loaded without the gas check applied is no different than any HEEL boolit design. The heel bullet has been around ever since the first cartriges were load. Take a look at the lowly .22 long rifle(or all the cousins). I still shoot 41 Colt Heel boolits. My Ballard was chambered for the 38 Long.. a heel design.
I have shot UN-gas checked boolits for a long time. If the lowest band has enough strength / mass to seal the developing preasure then it works for me. Rifle, pistol... If I am NOT dealing with high FPS then I try the "bare base" approach. There are tables that give the approximate pressure different lead mixes will withstand. Those tables are OK guidelines and can get you near the max pressure your bare boolit can take.

first machine a pine for your seizer die and have it countersunk to fit the shank of the gaz check bullet
http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...n/IMG_0519.jpg
here is a pics showing how the GC bullet shank should fit inside the pin
http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...n/IMG_0522.jpg
put the pin in seizer and lube has you would normally the bullet comes out lubed but with no lube on the shank
very fast and easy
http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/w...n/IMG_0523.jpg

very good work

I sure wish I had a buddy that did machine work I have so many items like the one above to ruin a friendship lol

on this web site they are many who offer mold modification, GC making tool,
seizing die etc etc that could take this idea and offer it to us cast bullet shooters

I would not be offended if one of them do take my idea and make this andy tool
Canuck

That pin looks good. Maybe I got lucky, was able to adjust
the lubeamatic so only a little lube gets in the GC shank,
then just scrape it off with a thumbnail. They shoot fine!

lube on the GC shank may be an advantage to help cutting.I never worry about it.

missionary5155 said it well.

George

Wouldn't lube on the GC shank migrate to the powder charge and kill/damage the powder?

Look here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=48857 Fun stuff!

did you shoot with out gas check because I have 400 boolits with out gascheck and I wanto to use it in my .308 it'll be ok my load it's 180gr boolit and 13grains green dot thanks

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Originally Posted by ramon13

did you shoot with out gas check because I have 400 boolits with out gascheck and I wanto to use it in my .308 it'll be ok my load it's 180gr boolit and 13grains green dot thanks

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With that load you'll need a gas check. for chexless shooting you want to limit your vel. to around 22LR speeds . for best results say 900-1200 fps. Not to impressive your probably thinking but these sub loads can be just plain fun to shoot for extended sessions . My favorite Chexless sub load is for my 03A3 using a chexless Lee 155 and 6.0 grs of Bullseye just a hoot to ring the 12 " 200 yd gong time after time . Heres at 100 yds
Attachment 47127

Tim

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Originally Posted by Bret4207

Yes, you can. But how accurate it will be depends on the design and the gun and load. If you go for moderate to slow speeds it tends to work better than if you push them to the max. IME the faster you push them, the more problems you have. Given a boolit that fits the gun to start with and a gas check shank that isn't boogered up (has a smooth and even circumference) they often they will shoot rather well, especially at short range.

I'm sure Ken will add the relevant posts as he can as there is a lot of discussion on this already and on how a GC functions. But, that paragraph will at least get it started.

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Yes, you can shoot a bullet designed for a gas check without putting a gas check on it. Just don't push it hard and it will shoot fine

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Originally Posted by a.squibload

That pin looks good. Maybe I got lucky, was able to adjust
the lubeamatic so only a little lube gets in the GC shank,
then just scrape it off with a thumbnail. They shoot fine!

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If you don't want the lube in the GC area, go to hollowpointbullets.com. Eric will make you a bottom die that will fit OVER the GC indentation that will keep the lube out of there. He has made them for me for the bevel base boolits and they work fine and there isn't any gunk in the bottom of the boolit. He does GREAT WORK

I know I'm kinda late to the party here, but just thought I'd mention that I believe the website Lead47 was referring to is actually: http://www.hollowpointmold.com

I have had no problems shooting gas checked boolits w/o the gas check in my Ruger 357 and they work fine. JUST DON'T PUSH THEM, or you will get the same as any pushed boolit, leading. With out the gas check you should be able to push them from 850-1100+/- w/o any problems. Make good plinkers

Thanks for the link. I gave up the RCBS 215 gn gc
44 mold for a long time 'cause "bigger is better", but
I really like them at about 1000fps w/o checks.
Made a steel hanging target, they ring it as good
as the 240s, and for every 7 shots they save
enough lead for one more boolit.
(Dang I'm cheap, huh?).
Used the 215s w/checks before, trying for a fast load
but wasn't very accurate, glad I tried w/o the checks.
This mold might be a good candidate for HPing.

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Originally Posted by a.squibload

Thanks for the link. I gave up the RCBS 215 gn gc
44 mold for a long time 'cause "bigger is better", but
I really like them at about 1000fps w/o checks.
Made a steel hanging target, they ring it as good
as the 240s, and for every 7 shots they save
enough lead for one more boolit.
(Dang I'm cheap, huh?).
Used the 215s w/checks before, trying for a fast load
but wasn't very accurate, glad I tried w/o the checks.
This mold might be a good candidate for HPing.

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Maybe like this ? ?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=52373

Yep, those are nice!
Was gonna ask which pin you like better but
I like the big one. Might try to DIY it, as in the
thread about HP without a machine shop.
And yes your camera works fine, thanks for posting those.

PS: Have you tried 50/50 WW/soft? With a pinch of tin
they cast & shoot well & I'm getting no barrel leading.
Also using BAC lube.

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Originally Posted by nighthunter

I think all folks that have a need for this information should send a PM or email to Waksupi. He has vast knowledge in this area and would probably share it with everyone asking. Waksupi helped me with a great problem I had while casting. I had asked about what to do with all the sprues I had accumulated after years of casting. I had 7 or 8 five gallon buckets full in the garage. Waksupi (Ric) told me that they were of no use and in fact could be hazerdus to the environment. He was nice enough to allow me to package and ship them all to him for disposal. We have some really thoughtful members on this board.

Nighthunter

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Made me laugh out loud :)

I would be more than happy to pay the postage if you would just ship all those old left over sprues. Send to Don Worley 2915 Dynamic Drive Colorado Springs, Colorado 80920. I will get a check for the postage just as soon as I receive the old sprues. Thanks

Another long standing question answered. Good thread. Thanks for the posted info.

Roy

thanks

PC them and you won't have the lube problem or need to get a special punch.

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Originally Posted by popper

PC them and you won't have the lube problem or need to get a special punch.

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With a PC bullet, GC design, no GC, would you still need to keep the velocity down in the 900 to 1200 fps range or could you go higher?

IIRC I got close to 1800 in308 using 2400 but wouldn't cycle the AR. They were higher SB & WD. Still sized 0.310.

I have searched for a solution on Lyman lube sizing omitted GC with no success, but found a simple solution that works perfectly.

Egg Carton failed. Wipe off PITA.

Then grabbed one of my old thin plain base gas checks, inserted in sizing die, and fixed! The PB gas checks are made for larger base, so they do not attach to GC shank during lubing and stay in the die. Base sealed with no lube present on shank or base, only in lube groove as desired.

Edited 2 months later. Switched to Powder Coated and no more need for this sort of fix.

I've been thinking on this issue as I have a bunch of boolets that need checks but I'm running short. My thinking now is that to shoot w/o checks you need to shoot it with a cool powder, not a fast abrupt 700x/Unique but with 2400/4198 or slower. The problem is getting the pressures down for slower with lesser charges of slower powders charges you run into detonation territory!

Other idea I had was a cardboard, or thick paper check/wad.? It might be hard to keep them in place in a short neck but in a long neck like the Krag, it might work? Maybe egg carton paper?

If i shoot without gaschecks on a gaschecked bullet I tend to drop to the lower end of the powder charge.

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Originally Posted by nighthunter

I had asked about what to do with all the sprues I had accumulated after years of casting. I had 7 or 8 five gallon buckets full in the garage.

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What? You don't just throw them back in the pot and use them? I've never heard of not re-melting sprues. ????

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Originally Posted by 300leonidas

What? You don't just throw them back in the pot and use them? I've never heard of not re-melting sprues. ????

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Yeah, that just may be an April 1st joke :-)

I can't imagine using ingots over re-using clean, and pre-heated sprue.