1858 cylinder stop doesn't go down when working hammer.

My cylinder stop was broken so I ordered a repro. It makes the trigger spring hit the bottom of the trigger guard.So now it wont cycle if the trigger guard is on... Anyone have any opinions on what to do?

And when I work the hammer, how many positions am I supposed to have? My hammer has 2 grooves for safe and fire but before the the safe it clicks so that the cylinder can turn freely but I can just touch the hammer with the lightest touch it falls into the safety notch and the cylinder stop flings up for the safety position.... What causes that first click to turn the cylinder? If I work the hammer to fast it misses it and falls on safety.

PS: Gun is an original 1858 Navy.

Are you sure you got the correct part? Do the prongs on the spring properly engage the trigger and bolt stop? Is the top of the hammer that engages the notches on the hammer, and the notches in the hammer worn excessively preventing a good connection? Is the trigger spring weak?

It may well be that you received an incorrect part. I'd double check with the seller. How does it compare to your broken part?

Everything is fine, the part is barely bigger then the original, but all repros are bigger. I have a hammer too and it's big compared to the original.

Barely bigger is bigger.
Hard to say without having all the parts in front of you.
First thing I would do is just sit the parts outside the gun and see how they are supposed to work together without the cylinder.
When you have that put the parts in the frame with out the springs or cylinder and check again.
Now add the trigger/sear spring but not fully tight. Make sure the springs are sitting where they should on the other parts. Is there adequate clearance? How does it feel? Are there notches that should not be there?
Add the hammer spring on light. test again.

By now you should be able to say this is catching or this part binds or this needs relieving.
Now fix it.
There should only be 2 spots for the hammer to hold and that is half and full cock.
As you pull back the hammer the cylinder stop should drop and before the cylinder has reached the next chamber it should spring back up ready to align the cylinder with the barrel. It should be smooth. no notches no stiff spots and no hammer holds other than half or full cock.

I would suggest take it to a smith.
Hope this helps

I think you've started a couple of other threads that concerned this particular revolver along with a photo or two, right? It's an original production, quite old. The point is that unless you can find another original that is being cannibalized for parts, all parts are reproduction parts. The repro parts are being, and have been, made by several different manufacturers. They were made by different methods and to different specs than what Remington was doing back in 1858, and likely will not be a smooth drop-in fit to your revolver. Even those made today will not necessarily interchange, such as a Pietta bolt stop into a Uberti revolver. You can expect to have to do a bit of filing and polishing to make a new part fit in an old, original gun. If you still have the original, broken part you can simply make the new part look like the old part. If you don't have the original part, then you're in for a "cut and try" session that requires patience. But some replica parts will be closer to the original than others, and finding the one that is the closest will save you some work. As for the other problems you mentioned in your first post about the hammer not remaining cocked, etc., you're not to clear in explaining how this all came about. From your earlier posts I had the impression that except for a cylinder gap problem the gun was functional. Did it work properly when you purchased it? Have you ever fired it? I know that there are some very restrictive gun ownership laws in Canada, but it shouldn't be that hard to find an 1858 replica, take it apart and compare it's workings to your revolver. Once you do that you can probably figure out what is causing your problems by close observation of the parts and what's different. A piece that is as old and used as your specimen has passed through many hands in the last approx. 160 years and was likely "gunsmithed" by one of its previous owners.
Only by comparing it with an unaltered specimen like a replica will you be able to figure out what has been done and needs to be corrected.
Best wishes.

DG

Are your hammer notches worn or broken? You shouldn’t be able to push the hammer forward from any notch into the next one without pulling the trigger back.

The rest of your description sounds like a timing issue. Jerry Kuhnhausen’s book on the Colt SA and clones shows how to dress the side of the springy part of the bifurcated rear of bolt to ride up the hammer cam, slide over it and drop down just ahead of full cock, and pick up the cam again with the hammer in the fired position. I don’t know of anybody doing a specialized treatment of Remingtons like this, but the principle should be the same. The Colt system is: “Safety” notch (don’t trust it); bolt locked in cylinder cutout with firing pin just off primer; “Loading” notch; hammer further back, bolt down and cylinder free to spin; No “notch” as such, but the bolt clicking as it snaps over the cam and into the cylinder cutout just before full-cock; and the “Full-Cock” notch, cylinder locked by bolt again and gun ready to fire.

If the trigger guard prevents the trigger going all the way into the cocking notch at full-cock, maybe a couple file strokes on the back of the slot would relieve this condition. But I’d look at the hammer notches and the timing first. Check your hand or pawl as well to make sure it’s pushing the cylinder into full index. It might need stretching by peening if it doesn’t push the ratchet high enough to index cylinder chambers to the barrel. The bolt won’t drop into the cutouts properly either.

IIRC, Kuhnhausen’s SA Book said the old-time Colt workmen were expected to be able to time nine revolvers per hour. I did one of those little 1849 Pocket revolvers once, and it was more like one revolver in 9 hours, and it still sticks a little occasionally. Go slow, and reassemble often to check your work. If you go too far, there is no other recourse except to get another bolt and start over.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bent Ramrod

Are your hammer notches worn or broken? You shouldn’t be able to push the hammer forward from any notch into the next one without pulling the trigger back.

The rest of your description sounds like a timing issue. Jerry Kuhnhausen’s book on the Colt SA and clones shows how to dress the side of the springy part of the bifurcated rear of bolt to ride up the hammer cam, slide over it and drop down just ahead of full cock, and pick up the cam again with the hammer in the fired position. I don’t know of anybody doing a specialized treatment of Remingtons like this, but the principle should be the same. The Colt system is: “Safety” notch (don’t trust it); bolt locked in cylinder cutout with firing pin just off primer; “Loading” notch; hammer further back, bolt down and cylinder free to spin; No “notch” as such, but the bolt clicking as it snaps over the cam and into the cylinder cutout just before full-cock; and the “Full-Cock” notch, cylinder locked by bolt again and gun ready to fire.

If the trigger guard prevents the trigger going all the way into the cocking notch at full-cock, maybe a couple file strokes on the back of the slot would relieve this condition. But I’d look at the hammer notches and the timing first. Check your hand or pawl as well to make sure it’s pushing the cylinder into full index. It might need stretching by peening if it doesn’t push the ratchet high enough to index cylinder chambers to the barrel. The bolt won’t drop into the cutouts properly either.

IIRC, Kuhnhausen’s SA Book said the old-time Colt workmen were expected to be able to time nine revolvers per hour. I did one of those little 1849 Pocket revolvers once, and it was more like one revolver in 9 hours, and it still sticks a little occasionally. Go slow, and reassemble often to check your work. If you go too far, there is no other recourse except to get another bolt and start over.

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The hammer notches are fine. Im sure its a timing issue il just need to do some research because I have no idea what im doing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager

I think you've started a couple of other threads that concerned this particular revolver along with a photo or two, right? It's an original production, quite old. The point is that unless you can find another original that is being cannibalized for parts, all parts are reproduction parts. The repro parts are being, and have been, made by several different manufacturers. They were made by different methods and to different specs than what Remington was doing back in 1858, and likely will not be a smooth drop-in fit to your revolver. Even those made today will not necessarily interchange, such as a Pietta bolt stop into a Uberti revolver. You can expect to have to do a bit of filing and polishing to make a new part fit in an old, original gun. If you still have the original, broken part you can simply make the new part look like the old part. If you don't have the original part, then you're in for a "cut and try" session that requires patience. But some replica parts will be closer to the original than others, and finding the one that is the closest will save you some work. As for the other problems you mentioned in your first post about the hammer not remaining cocked, etc., you're not to clear in explaining how this all came about. From your earlier posts I had the impression that except for a cylinder gap problem the gun was functional. Did it work properly when you purchased it? Have you ever fired it? I know that there are some very restrictive gun ownership laws in Canada, but it shouldn't be that hard to find an 1858 replica, take it apart and compare it's workings to your revolver. Once you do that you can probably figure out what is causing your problems by close observation of the parts and what's different. A piece that is as old and used as your specimen has passed through many hands in the last approx. 160 years and was likely "gunsmithed" by one of its previous owners.
Only by comparing it with an unaltered specimen like a replica will you be able to figure out what has been done and needs to be corrected.
Best wishes.

DG

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Everything worked fine, except for the cylinder of course... Now im having issues having switched out the stop. Someone mentioned timing issues, which is probably it. Il also need to file alittle off the new part.

It just needs to be properly fitted. Those parts are not universal...some assembly required.

Timing likely involves the hand being worn, and perhaps the ratchet notches on the rear of the cylinder that are pushed by the hand. You can fit a new hand, which will likely require some filing like the bolt stop probably will, but there is little to be done with the cylinder notches that is practical for you to perform. If the gun worked fine before you switched out the stop, then logic dictates that if the stop is properly replaced the gun should function as well as it did when you originally acquired it. While you're at it, you should probably replace the trigger and bolt stop spring.

DG

I filled the bolt stop and the little arms on it . It works better now. Still not perfect. The timing is off abit, but im no expert. Il let it be for now.

I'm not sure how often the hammer fell from full-cock to the loading notch, but it doesn't take much to peen the thin end of the trigger which engages the full-cock notch in the hammer. The steels used then were pretty soft and even the modern repros can be deformed by catching on the loading notch a few times. This deformation may be why the trigger is barely holding the hammer back, allowing it to be dislodged by pushing on the hammer. Examine the trigger to be sure you don't need another.

Another detail about today's reproduction revolvers is that some are inch pattern and some are metric, which will have slightly different diameter screws and holes, and the other parts re-dimensioned accordingly. Pietta's are metric and parts will probably require hand fitting. IIRC, Uberti, Armi San Marco and some others were produced in inch pattern and the parts should be a closer fit to the originals. Back when Val Forgett was negotiating with the Italian makers, he was insistant that they be reproduced as exact copies of the originals, not some kinda-sorta fantasy pieces with numerous manufacturing shortcuts and "improvements". These days, Mr. Forgett having long since passed on, certain liberties have been taken regarding styling, for instance. You may want to check who made the replacement part you have. My inclination would be to start with a Uberti replacement, but the one you have may be workable with enough fitting.

One thing to watch out for when replacing the bolt stop is how well its thickness fits the frame window it reaches up through to engage the cylinder notches. Also, how "tall" it is. Compare the original with your new one and examine whether the corner where the two flats on the bottom meet is the same distance from the pivot hole the trigger/bolt-stop screw goes through. Your description sounds as though the new one extends farther downward (has more material) from the screw hole and there isn't enough room for it and the spring leaf in the frame mortise when the trigger guard is in place.

The hammer never fell. Its just that I had trouble finding the loading notch. What makes the gun find that notch? Safety and fire work fine.