How many here stick with traditional styles?

The Bi-Centennial, 1976, was a big influenece on me. That being said, I consider the non-traditionals something "less" than a real muzzle loader. NY's muzzle loader season was intended to offer a week of additional hunting season to those using traditional black powder muzzle loaders. It has morphed into nothing less than a second season. Scopes do not belong on a ML. Shooting saboted jacketed bullets is not primitive. Bolt action muzzle loaders are not traditional. They should not be allowed during the muzzle loader season. Just my opinion. Yes, I want more shooters, but calling a White System rifle a "muzzle loader" is streching the intention of the reason for the season. If they were to have a speacial "In Line" season that would be more appropriate.

I too believe in the traditional is more better don't cha no. I do own an inline but I prefer to hunt with my side hammer .45 kentucky rifle. My hawkens .50 and my pendersoli 10 gauge shotgun .... all replicas wish they were originals. Even have a couple of remington revolvers cap and ball .Wish I had a .32 squirrel rifle to go with them. I do collect old military rifles as well....just somethin about the way they feel and the history behind them. The feel of the wood and steel and the events in history they went through along with the young men that used them. Sure wish those old rifles could tell their story. 8mmshooter

The T/C Fire Hawk would be about as new-fangled as I would be willing to go as far as a "New style" ML was conserned. I'm just goofy for half-stocks, working on a list of T/C Hawkens to start a moden collection. See how it goes...

What I really like about the older traditional guns is the fancy wood. The striped maple and fancy walnuts are beautiful!

Then there is the quality and workmanship that is put into these guns. The carvings and inlays, WOW!

and I just tinker with simple ole Underhammers. :roll:

I do not get the same level of satisfaction with modern guns as I do with flintlocks.

Im new to ML'ers

But I own a cva 32 squirrel and a cva bobcat. the last few years if went fom mauser rifle building to (just starting) ML building. When I get a bug I get it all the way. I jumped into archery the same way and now im putting down the compound and using longbows. So I am an advocate of traditional with holy black only. Inlines are nice but to easy, it takes some of the challenge out of it. This has all come about because I can shoot comfortably out to 500 yards iron sights so having to get, any game into about 50 yards is real hunting. :lovebooli

Another traditional fan here. Been shooting them since 1975. A guy at work got me started with a kentucky long rifle kit. Never have owned or shot an in-line...odds are never will.

Traditional, here. Inlines give me the fantods.

What gripes me is that I pushed for a M/L season from 1971 till the first season in 1984??? Our premise for the season was slow reloads, limited range and power and the general difficulty of the sport. Now I see where the inlines are bragging about being 100% waterproof and accurate and powerful out to 300 yards and they reload with a bullet glued to a stick of powder. M/L season has become an extra chance for the greedy to harvest another deer. The inlines have brough very little into the primitive clubs and now the guys with the flinters are out there competing with the same thing we petitioned for a special season to get away from.

But then again I won't shoot a bow with wheels either.

That's a good argument to be anti- inline.

I only have an inline turkey shotgun cause it's real pretty camo, and has a gold medallion in the stock.. :bigsmyl2: :bigsmyl2:

Some states such a Pennyslvania started with a primitive season that means a primitive flintlock with patched roundball and iron sights only. I think they modified that to almost the same except you can you use a conical I heard. My point is PA also has a BP season where any sort of muzzleloader is okay. You PA forum members correct me if I'm wrong. Now, If I had my choice of a BP season with inlines or no season at all which you think I would pick? Yup right, inline season. There are other greedy ways of getting more deer and one of them is illegal. I'd rather see a primitive season that gets a hunter out there true and honest. I'd rather see a young kid hunt primitive season with an inline then not hunt at all and play they foolish damn video games.

Joe

Also have to agree with the in-line issue. If it gets people into the sport, great. Now we traditionalists have a little easier job of converting them to real BP shooting.

I would love to see a bit of re-doing the ML season hunting regs but I know that the lobbists for in-lines will be the loudest, look at the common blackpowder Co's output now days, almost every rifle they offer is an in-line. What I would like to see is the powder and load written up to restrict the speed of loading. Load sticks need to go away, I would love to see sabots go away but it would be argued that a patched roundball is a sabot of sorts.

Ok my brain hurts and I'm going on to something pleasent...

Most definitely a traditionalist!!!!! I have a .65caliber flintlock trade gun (smoothbore) and a .54 caliber Hawken fullstock that were both made by me. I shoot from my bag at the shoots and people look at me like I am crazy. Biut it keeps me close to my ancestors!!! FWIW, moodyholler

I shoot a flintlock only - It was hard to allow my son's perc. in the door....but what can a guy do? :-)
Anyway - Cabela's .54 HAwken copy (Eric re-worked to make it shootable)
The rifle is actually made in Spain - can't remember off hand who. Learned my lesson on copies, repro's, etc. If you want it done right - you have to do it yourself. It took me ALOT of time and effort to get this things consistently on paper at 50yds......new sights, mods to sights, lock "tuning" and adjustment, etc, etc....long saga.

Oregon has ML seasons - the particulars are as follows
peep or open sights
open ignition (inlines or 209 primers not allowed) Yippy!
Lead projectiles only (YES!!!!)
no plastic, sabot's, artificial wads, etc... (OH YEAH)
No fiber optic sight inserts or scopes
The list goes on and I can't remember it all off-hand.... but the gist of it is percussion or flintlock only with inlines, closed breech percussion and other modern designs excluded from the ML seasons. If people choose to use the modern ML's in general center fire rifle seasons they can.

I like flinter's myself. Reason? Just cuz...if I am going to make it challenging why not make it challenging? I'm out there to have fun and hone my skills - not to "cheat" and carry a center fire rifle in ML clothes or use some exotic "wonder bullet" to compensate for poor shot placement. THe proper projectiles are simple - lead ball, lead minnie ball or REAL bullet from Lee. This is one concession I had to make (they shot REAL Good from my rifle!) There are others that work too - Maxi, maxi-hunter, etc, etc.

There is no ignition timing difference in a properly tuned flinter and a good percussion operating correctly. This, I guess is a lost art so to speak - luckily there was an old timer nearby who past on the tricks to me. Nothing complicated - but very very necessary conversion to a "factory" lock. Take a wait a minute deer and hold still gun - to a wham never new what hit-em' gun.

There!
Done rambling..... OH I almost forgot - Black powder is the ONLY propellant.
For those of you scared of the "corrosion" issues - you have nothing to fear from black powder if you follow a simple routine. Fire gun - clean gun. All you need for cleaning is simple - water, plain old water, use ZERO petroleum / synthetic based lube or protectant (unless you plan to remove it completely before firing). In the field I can clean my rifle after a one shot or two at game before I walk up to make sure the critter expired. Basically it takes about 2 minutes to clean and protect. The hype about black is pushed way out there in left field to promote these "subs" to black. If you use them and like them - good for you. If you find ignition spotty or difficult - switch to another one. If you want rapid reliable ignition - black is your answer. If anyone has specific questions on the flintlock or my cleaning techniques just drop me an email or whatever.
Ok.....done rambling I promise

Ejjuls,
Very interesting post. I have a percussion and have thought about getting a flintlock. If you would be willing to post your lock tuning tricks, I'm sure there are many here that would be all ears.

-Todd

I will do just that!
I need to take some pictures of my lock and such and put together a thoughtful easy to follow instructions.....

Give me a couple of days and I will post a new topic on "geeting flintlocks to go boom - instead of swishsshhhhsshhhh....pause.....boom"!

Hope everyone enjoys.....glad to hear I can actually contribute something useful!!

:-)
Eric

Ejjuls, you know, even if all you have to say is "Yes, I think so, too. That's how it worked with mine.", that's still something useful and important. It adds a lot to one simple posting when others agree, or also when they disagree. There are a lot of us who explore threads on things we know nothing about just to stretch our minds a little in a new direction, and every opinion adds a little more to the process. If you get a thread where someone says something off the wall and there are NO replies at all, then we get the general impression he might be a sandwitch or two short of a picnic, [smilie=1: but when someone comes along with a "Yeah, it seems strange, but I tried it and it really worked.", then we have food for thought and the motivation to try something new to see if it might work for us, too.
Of course, when you have something major to teach us, that's even better. Flintlocks are a fascinating subject and there are too few people around that know much about them. Don't hesitate to go on for a few pages or more about all of the little things that "everybody knows", because I, for one, do not and would like to. I seriously doubt that I am the only one, either. Start up a new thread like "State of the Art:1700's", we'll keep you busy answering questions for a while. :D

I like my Lyman Great Plains. I've never owned an in-line, but I may experiment with one some day- I like anything with a trigger! My personal direction is retro- my next move will be from percussion to flint, then from rifle to smoothbore. I think it's about personal experience, and the experience one is seeking, more than about the tools we use.

As far as hunting, I'll use a modern centerfire during that deer season, and a traditional during ML season. If an in-line gets someone interested in the sport, more power to them- then I'll take them to a Rendezvous, let them smell real black powder, start them casting RBs, and somewhere along the way they'll see the light.

BTW, Santa's bringing my 8 year old a 50 cal CVA for Christmas; traditional style, of course!

Stay safe,
Doug

P.S. Looking forward to your flintlock thread, EJJULS!

Here is a good link on how to tune up a C/W musket lock. Most info should apply to any traditional lock

Ejjuls Like to see your lock tuning tips also

http://www.nwtskirmisher.com/useful-locks.shtml

Dr. Doug,
I agree with you whole heartedly on "personal experience". Good point. You got your son a ML for Christmas eh. You rock! My son was about that age when I got him his first gun, also for Christmas (.22 rim fire). Since then he used money he saved from mowing lawns to buy his own deer rifle and 12 ga. He lives to hunt and doesn't do dumb things like drugs and alcohol. When kids are engaged in a healthy time consuming hobby, they tend to stay on the right path.