9mm success

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12-14-2010, 05:31 PM
rbstern

9mm success

Over the summer, we had a couple of threads going about the challenges of 9x19 with cast bullets. The comments in the threads got me motivated to try again, after having previously given up due to too much leading and the cleaning chores.

I've reached the promised land.

I'm using the Lee 358-125 RNFP sized .358, with LARS Red Carnauba (also my go to bullet for most 38 special plinking), sitting on top of a mild charge of 700X, processed with Lee's four die set.

I've tried this load in a S&W 5906, a Taurus Mil Pro PT111, and an Astra A100. After shooting, the barrel cleanup for each was no different than shooting jacketed. Very little fouling. The Astra A100 is quickly becoming a favorite of mine. It's crazy accurate with this cast load. That gun, in my hands, and in the hands of some inexperienced shooters, has sent about 500 of these downrange so far, and it's been a revelation. Put nearly 200 rounds through it one night last week. The accuracy was unchanged throughout the session, and the barrel cleaned up so easily afterwards. And it tears out the center of the target. Easy on the gun. Easy on the shooter. Dead nuts reliable functioning. Have not chrono'd it yet, but will do so over the winter.

To all those who posted encouraging comments in the various "I'm about to give up on 9mm" threads, thank you!
12-14-2010, 05:49 PM
DeanWinchester

I've been using the Lee 124g (actually falls 130g) truncated cone for years. Tumble lube at modest velocity, VERY accurate in my XD9 and Beretta 92. I can shoot all day with very little fouling. I think I am touch heavy on the lube though as they are slightly smokey. Ehh, who cares, bang away!
12-14-2010, 06:24 PM
Recluse

I have better luck playing pick-up sticks with my butt cheeks than I do with 9mm cast boolits. [smilie=b:

I'm cursed.

:coffee:
12-14-2010, 06:42 PM
ph4570

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanWinchester

I've been using the Lee 124g (actually falls 130g) truncated cone for years. Tumble lube at modest velocity, VERY accurate in my XD9 and Beretta 92. I can shoot all day with very little fouling. I think I am touch heavy on the lube though as they are slightly smokey. Ehh, who cares, bang away!

I use the Lee truncated cone in my Sig 226 and Beretta 92 with excellent results using blue dot and Ruskie sparkers. I use the standard boolit with felix lube vs. the tumble boolit design. Accuracy is one hole at 15 yards from a rest. I must do much more practice off-hand. There is no lead build up with either weapon. BUT it did take a fair amount of tinkering and die fussing for the Sig as it has huge chamber and bore. I use .360 boolits in that critter.
12-14-2010, 08:02 PM
Daryl

RBSTERN,

I'm glad to hear of your success. Just when I think I got it figured out - something goes astray!

I have a couple of questions for you....do most of your bullets actually get sized @ .358 or do you have many that don't get touched? I'm curious because I'm moving up from sizing @ 356 to 358 to get back on track. Seems to size them all - but a new mold I'm having cut is going to be at .360.

Do you know what your barrels slug? I was doing ok but got an S&W M&P 9 with tons of leading and finally figured out it was pushing .357 - at least .001 over my others that I had working ok.

Have you pulled apart a bullet after crimping to see what the crimp die swages it down to? I found mine was swaging down to .355 - finally tinkered with it to get it back up to .3565+. I'm always changing guns and shoot out of many - so I end up working a cartridge that will chamber and headspace in 3 or 4 barrels at a time.

I think bullet fit is the main key to it all and I let my guard down on that after things seemed to be going ok.

Another thing I think is critical is the conditioning of the bore to shoot lead. Did you do anything special to the bores or have they had a fair number of rounds through them?
12-14-2010, 08:47 PM
noylj

Even my 1930 era P08s like lead bullets, and feed almost anything well--course, the sights suck.
Only problem with lead bullets is my Browning HP with its 0.3595" groove diameter. It's hard to find a good 0.361" 9mm bullet...
12-14-2010, 08:56 PM
ph4570

Quote:

Originally Posted by noylj

Even my 1930 era P08s like lead bullets, and feed almost anything well--course, the sights suck.
Only problem with lead bullets is my Browning HP with its 0.3595" groove diameter. It's hard to find a good 0.361" 9mm bullet...

For fatter 9mm boolits beagle the mold. I had to do that to the 6-hole Lee 120gr to make them fat enough for my sig. Dropped boolits went from .3575 to .3605
12-14-2010, 11:35 PM
rbstern

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl

RBSTERN,

I'm glad to hear of your success. Just when I think I got it figured out - something goes astray!

I have a couple of questions for you....do most of your bullets actually get sized @ .358 or do you have many that don't get touched? I'm curious because I'm moving up from sizing @ 356 to 358 to get back on track. Seems to size them all - but a new mold I'm having cut is going to be at .360.

Do you know what your barrels slug? I was doing ok but got an S&W M&P 9 with tons of leading and finally figured out it was pushing .357 - at least .001 over my others that I had working ok.

Have you pulled apart a bullet after crimping to see what the crimp die swages it down to? I found mine was swaging down to .355 - finally tinkered with it to get it back up to .3565+. I'm always changing guns and shoot out of many - so I end up working a cartridge that will chamber and headspace in 3 or 4 barrels at a time.

I think bullet fit is the main key to it all and I let my guard down on that after things seemed to be going ok.

Another thing I think is critical is the conditioning of the bore to shoot lead. Did you do anything special to the bores or have they had a fair number of rounds through them?

Daryl, bullets come out at .359. All of them are sized in my RCBS .358 die. Didn't slug any of the bores mentioned.

I did pull bullets when setting up my dies. No swaging at all. I have the dies set for minimal flairing to insert the boolit, and then only enough crimp with the Lee FCD to remove the flair, plus a smidge for tension against setback.

All of the guns mentioned were purchased used, and I have little idea of their histories. Excellent bores on all, no modifications.
12-15-2010, 01:36 AM
MtGun44

Glad to hear it. We get a large number of "my 9mm leads badly and the boolits hit
the target sideways, I give up" threads here.

Not really too difficult, but it helps to have a map.

Bill
12-15-2010, 03:57 AM
chris in va

Yup, I'm one of those 'keyholing' guys. The gentlemen on this board pointed me to the 358-125-RF mold and all is well.

Mine drops at .362 though. Gives me a little workout when sizing.
12-15-2010, 04:22 PM
Silent

358-125-RF, water dropped wheel weights with ~2% added tin. Tumble lubed with 45/45/10 lube using Turtle Wax instead of the other paste wax since I can't find any here. Sized to .358 just to be sure, and lubed again. Most of the boolits are barely sized by the die. I don't really crimp my rounds after loading the boolit, but I do straighten out the case mouth to make it the same size as the front of the case. I do that with the bullet seating die. 4.0 gr unique and my 9mm FireStar is a happy camper with no leading even after 100 rounds.

I'll be playing with softer alloys soon to see if I get leading.

Ohh yea, slugged at .357 :D
12-15-2010, 05:26 PM
NHlever

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbstern

Over the summer, we had a couple of threads going about the challenges of 9x19 with cast bullets. The comments in the threads got me motivated to try again, after having previously given up due to too much leading and the cleaning chores.

I've reached the promised land.

I'm using the Lee 358-125 RNFP sized .358, with LARS Red Carnauba (also my go to bullet for most 38 special plinking), sitting on top of a mild charge of 700X, processed with Lee's four die set.

I've tried this load in a S&W 5906, a Taurus Mil Pro PT111, and an Astra A100. After shooting, the barrel cleanup for each was no different than shooting jacketed. Very little fouling. The Astra A100 is quickly becoming a favorite of mine. It's crazy accurate with this cast load. That gun, in my hands, and in the hands of some inexperienced shooters, has sent about 500 of these downrange so far, and it's been a revelation. Put nearly 200 rounds through it one night last week. The accuracy was unchanged throughout the session, and the barrel cleaned up so easily afterwards. And it tears out the center of the target. Easy on the gun. Easy on the shooter. Dead nuts reliable functioning. Have not chrono'd it yet, but will do so over the winter.

To all those who posted encouraging comments in the various "I'm about to give up on 9mm" threads, thank you!

Could you share the alloy you are using, and the COL that you are loading them to? I'm trying them at 1.075", and they seem to function well. My alloy is pretty soft though perhaps at 1-15, or so.
12-15-2010, 10:41 PM
Wilson

I've had very good sucess with the Lee 6 cavity 356-125-2R mold. I water drop my bullets and size to .356 in a Star. I use American Select powder. Thanks to help from the folks on this forum I can comfortably cast a bit more than 1,000 bullets an hour. The kids and I were running through 5,000 of these a month during the summer. Don't give up on 9mm. There's a lot of bag for the buck there!
12-15-2010, 10:59 PM
tomf52

Lee 105 SWC air cooled, sized to .357. Moderate load of W231. LLA lube. Can shoot them all day in my Kimber 1911 9mm and get no leading. Also in my S&W 5906. Slugged both bores and both are .356. Accurate as all get out too.
12-16-2010, 12:26 AM
rbstern

Quote:

Originally Posted by NHlever

Could you share the alloy you are using, and the COL that you are loading them to? I'm trying them at 1.075", and they seem to function well. My alloy is pretty soft though perhaps at 1-15, or so.

Straight WW alloy, nothing added.

I'm not going to post my COL post it here because it's shorter than most would want to load, and I don't want someone to breeze through this thread via a Google search and say "Ah! I guess it's safe to load 9mm that short" without understanding the implications.
12-16-2010, 12:27 AM
rbstern

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilson

I've had very good sucess with the Lee 6 cavity 356-125-2R mold. I water drop my bullets and size to .356 in a Star. I use American Select powder. Thanks to help from the folks on this forum I can comfortably cast a bit more than 1,000 bullets an hour. The kids and I were running through 5,000 of these a month during the summer. Don't give up on 9mm. There's a lot of bag for the buck there!

1000 bullets an hour? That sounds intriguing.
12-16-2010, 03:58 AM
NHlever

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbstern

Straight WW alloy, nothing added.

I'm not going to post my COL post it here because it's shorter than most would want to load, and I don't want someone to breeze through this thread via a Google search and say "Ah! I guess it's safe to load 9mm that short" without understanding the implications.

OK, understandably enough said. Looks like I'm in the ball park on the alloy. Mine are grouping very well when I do my part, I was just comparing notes. Thanks for the reply.
12-16-2010, 10:16 AM
wingnut49b

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbstern

1000 bullets an hour? That sounds intriguing.

Check out the BruceB Speedcasting sticky. I'm just getting started, but can definately see getting 1000/hr in the future.
12-16-2010, 10:36 AM
45 2.1

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbstern

1000 bullets an hour? That sounds intriguing.

A six cavity mold cycled every twenty seconds (12 seconds is quite doable also) will give you 1,080 boolits per hour IF you and the pot can keep up. At 12 seconds per cycle thats 1,800.