Open revelation

Open revelation could be a theological debate . This is no debate , it is a thread dedicated to our individual understanding of confirmation by only seeing the world around us . Open revelation to believers is confirming the existence of GOD by the world around us . We of faith never doubt that our world and existence is the work of GOD , we never think otherwise .


The beginning of the book of Genesis explains in a simple way that we are capable of comprehending how our world was made , how our universe was formed . And yes ..it was done in six days . Psalm 19;1-4

19
The heavens declare the glory of God;
And the firmament shows His handiwork.
2
Day unto day utters speech,
And night unto night reveals knowledge.
3
There is no speech nor language
Where their voice is not heard.
4
Their line has gone out through all the earth,
And their words to the end of the world.

We are blessed with our understanding that we so much take for granted that we actually SEE GOD's work around us ! Not even a sparrow falls , consider the lily's of the field , We seldom dwell on our open revelation but when we do it is an awesome awakening and testament to the power of GOD that is beyond our capability to comprehend

If you get a moment today look around you and be still , think about it ,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEE5MvoT3oI

I see his hand everywhere I look.
I feel his power with every thunderstorm that rumbles across the prairie.

I personally have always felt closest to him in the wild places.

Sitting under a tree listening to the sweet sound of water and a stray breeze slips through, touches my hair.
Was I not just touched by the hand of God? I believe so.

His inspiration is all around us. We need to remember to slow down, to take it in, be touched by it. Not to be so absorbed in the modern world that we miss it all.

Charlie,

Genesis has at least one fatal “flaw” that continues to disturb me. That is all creatures who walk the land were created on the same day. No evidence has yet shown that dinosaurs and man coexisted. The most “rational” reason I have heard is that “day” does not mean the 24 hour day we currently use. I can accept that, as God may have simplified the message to help Moses. In His wisdom, telling man it took millions of years was something the ancients may have struggled with or cast doubt on the power of God.

But when I sit at night by the campfire and stare at the stars, I sense the power of God.

Old Testament Israel was repeatedly told to 'Remember what I have done for you". Any believer, with a little thought and memory, can recall multiple miracles that have occurred in their lives - God is active and working in His people's lives all the time. His advice in the Old Testament applies equally now. Make a record of those miracles - you will have a record of God's activity in your life, for you - or against your sin! Reviewing this periodically does increase faith.

The literal 24 hour day concept of creation has more than one flaw. It is not possible to have a 24 hour day prior to the earth and sun in place.

Amen, GOD is the Creator of all things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dverna

Charlie,

Genesis has at least one fatal “flaw” that continues to disturb me. That is all creatures who walk the land were created on the same day. No evidence has yet shown that dinosaurs and man coexisted. The most “rational” reason I have heard is that “day” does not mean the 24 hour day we currently use. I can accept that, as God may have simplified the message to help Moses. In His wisdom, telling man it took millions of years was something the ancients may have struggled with or cast doubt on the power of God.

But when I sit at night by the campfire and stare at the stars, I sense the power of God.

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Don the living word of GOD is flawless , it is the sword of GOD . Dinosaurs are child's play , why didn't GOD explain dark holes , gravity , tectonic plates and a million other things . How could we even begin to understand a self-sustaining world spinning in a universe made by his hand ? We can not 'make' a single blade of grass on our own , in our present condition we could never begin to understand the details of GOD's power . There are many mysteries we are incapable of understanding and need not know . All we need is faith

This thread makes me think about why at my age and current state of decrepitude I still "hunt". Killing game is not important, although I very much like venison and squirrel and such. I sit in my stand and have a deep conversation with the Lord while I ponder all of the creation within my limited vision. I come back with a whole new attitude. My problems are still the same but I am reminded that it's all under the control of a greater power, and I'm thankful. God bless all here. GW

Either you believe or you dont. The same goes for smoking section or non-smoking section when you die. I truly believe the BIBLE. You need to remember that it is written by men and that life was so simple back then that they could not have comprehended a 1000 years for example. Revelation is a book that marvels me and it is told for an audience that was largely uneducated and could not comprehend things that they were not familure with. It would like trying to explain a man walking on the moon to a mountain man of the 1700's. I believe that Jesus is my Savior and that He is my path to the Father!

Revelations is a chapter that I simply take as given, and don't try to discern much about it. It's good to know what the end will be like, of course, but it tells us near the beginning that we won't be able to understand it, and that seems clearly evidenced by all the "interpretations" that abound about it all. Some of the interpretations are pretty interesting, and some, ,at least in my estimation, seem kind'a far fetched. I don't understand it, and can't pretend to, and all I've decided is that I'll "wait and see" if it comes in my day. Until then, I'll just keep trying to understand my Lord, and His will for me. That's tough enough for an old country boy like me! I sure wish I was smarter, and more well tutored in what all it takes to understand prophesy. But I'm not, and I have a notion a lot of folks who propound on it aren't any better at it than I am. So .... I'll just keep trusting the prophet who told us we wouldn't be able to understand it, and just marvel at what it does tend to indicate to me. The more I marvel at God's works and prophesies, the less time I have to be tempted by that other fellow who hates the Lord and all that's Good. It works for me, at least.

BWP,

Abraham lived to 175, Isaac to 180....why would you conclude that ancient man would not have comprehended 1000 years?

And Charlie, many of the things you mentioned were not explained in the Bible because ancient man had not discovered these things and no explanation or understanding was necessary. God did not muddy the waters with stuff that was immaterial. Every culture has questioned how we, the world, and the universe was created...thus His description of Genesis is key to His proof of being God.

I do not doubt the word of God. I doubt that God has told us everything....and I am relatively certain that what God told man may not have been recorded with 100% accuracy by man. This potential lack of accuracy will be higher in the Old Testament. God sent his son Jesus to mankind at a time when most of the Mediterranean world spoke Greek. I do not believe that is a coincidence. It reduced the chance of faulty translations and it allowed the Disciples to spread the Word across all lands and cultures without translation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dverna

BWP,

Abraham lived to 175, Isaac to 180....why would you conclude that ancient man would not have comprehended 1000 years?

And Charlie, many of the things you mentioned were not explained in the Bible because ancient man had not discovered these things and no explanation or understanding was necessary. God did not muddy the waters with stuff that was immaterial. Every culture has questioned how we, the world, and the universe was created...thus His description of Genesis is key to His proof of being God.

I do not doubt the word of God. I doubt that God has told us everything....and I am relatively certain that what God told man may not have been recorded with 100% accuracy by man. This potential lack of accuracy will be higher in the Old Testament. God sent his son Jesus to mankind at a time when most of the Mediterranean world spoke Greek. I do not believe that is a coincidence. It reduced the chance of faulty translations and it allowed the Disciples to spread the Word across all lands and cultures without translation.

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I would disagree that men were not recording it with 100% accuracy. I believe they did. In 2 Peter 1: 21, "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dverna

Charlie,

Genesis has at least one fatal “flaw” that continues to disturb me. That is all creatures who walk the land were created on the same day. No evidence has yet shown that dinosaurs and man coexisted. The most “rational” reason I have heard is that “day” does not mean the 24 hour day we currently use. I can accept that, as God may have simplified the message to help Moses. In His wisdom, telling man it took millions of years was something the ancients may have struggled with or cast doubt on the power of God.

But when I sit at night by the campfire and stare at the stars, I sense the power of God.

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If you allow for the possibility that the creation sequence in Genesis is a renovation (or recreation) of the world after a cataclysmic event (e.g., fall of Satan and angelic rebellion), the conflict between the fossil record and the Bible can be reconciled.

The earth may have been populated by dinosaurs and other ancient creatures before the fall of Satan which was met with a worldwide flood. This could be the reason that the Earth was covered in water in Genesis Chapter 1.

That's my line of reasoning anyway. I give the Bible the benefit of the doubt when I find a "flaw."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ickisrulz

If you allow for the possibility that the creation sequence in Genesis is a renovation (or recreation) of the world after a cataclysmic event (e.g., fall of Satan and angelic rebellion), the conflict between the fossil record and the Bible can be reconciled.

The earth may have been populated by dinosaurs and other ancient creatures before the fall of Satan which was met with a worldwide flood. This could be the reason that the Earth was covered in water in Genesis Chapter 1.

That's my line of reasoning anyway. I give the Bible the benefit of the doubt when I find a "flaw."

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If that was what happened, then God did not tell Moses the whole story and He would have had good reasons for doing so that we cannot fathom. Maybe a bit of a “white lie”....but that gives me even more issues to deal with.

I will continue to rationalize that either the “day” was not the 24 hr day as we define it but may have lasted 100’s of millions of years....or His Word was not recorded accurately. These are the simplest answers and thus most likely the correct ones.

It allows me to believe in God as the Creator without dismissing the facts we have of life existing before man. And the chance that a day could have lasted 100’s of millions of years permits Creation and evolution to coexist instead of having to chose one or the other.

When I find a flaw in the Bible, I do not question God ...but I question if the message was completely understood by those recording it or those who later translated scripture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dverna

If that was what happened, then God did not tell Moses the whole story and He would have had good reasons for doing so that we cannot fathom. Maybe a bit of a “white lie”....but that gives me even more issues to deal with.

I will continue to rationalize that either the “day” was not the 24 hr day as we define it but may have lasted 100’s of millions of years....or His Word was not recorded accurately. These are the simplest answers and thus most likely the correct ones.

It allows me to believe in God as the Creator without dismissing the facts we have of life existing before man. And the chance that a day could have lasted 100’s of millions of years permits Creation and evolution to coexist instead of having to chose one or the other.

When I find a flaw in the Bible, I do not question God ...but I question if the message was completely understood by those recording it or those who later translated scripture.

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I understand Don , at a time I had many questions myself though I never doubted . I'll not offer much in debate , each of us is given the opportunity to have a personal relationship with him . You might ask him ? I love you brother .

I agree with Boaz. When in doubt, ask.

There are a couple of things that I don't necessarily agree with him on. But once I asked and understood WHY I was able to accept and move past.

Romans 1;20

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

The title of the book is Revelation, not plural - as was pointed out to me years ago. Don, if you read Gen. 1:1 as creation of the universe it will make more sense. I'll give you a scientific 'stretch - who says the earth and cosmic motion took 24 of our 'clock' hours? Yes 'we' have found dinosaur prints and 'human' in the same ground. And then there was Methuselah. Big calendar to mark off each day. That word would have to have been given to man through Divine revelation (scripture).
OK, slightly off topic:
Invited to a get together from AFR group. Very interesting (good) people. Talks were of the cultural problems of today, basically the fight against 'dark forces of evil'. I was a little disturbed, as I personally feel that most of the preaching/teaching group don't understand how to fight the 'good' battle. Before I get flamed - let me explain. a big battle brewing at the Baptist convention (SBC) (sic.. AFR is NOT 'Baptist'). Yes, Peter and Paul had their verbal tiff, as many churches have had over the centuries. Original church of Christ, Orthodox, Catholic, Anglican, Puritan, Congregational, Quaker, Mormon, Unity and lots of cults. Yes it is a Spiritual war but the method of attack is money (possessions). Always has been! War in the U.S. is crazy spending by the Gov. Yes there will be a One World Order, Rev. spells that out. Are we just to sit on the sidelines and wait for it?
There are instances in the O.T. where we are 'ordered' to just pray and God will take care of the 'problem'. Personally, I believe the Education and Seminary system has been taken over and nobody is taught how to fight the 'good' fight. Think I'm wrong? - look to the O.T. and see why Hebrews often had such a hard time. Or just look at historical Russia, Germany, Rome, etc. Look up the historical Union Seminary. Why do we pick apart Scripture, thinking 'we' can interpret it 'properly'? The pulpit regurgitates Scripture ad nauseum but avoids the 'battle plan'. Those we call 'left' have and execute their plan while we spin our wheels and get nowhere.
End of rant.