Triple Seven fffg and .45 Colt Results

FYI and open to any input...

Yesterday, I loaded up some boolits consisting of 23 grains of Triple Seven fffg and the Lee .452-255-RF dropping at 265 grains.

The velocities from my 4 5/8" Uberti were:

855
849
851
863
853

AVE= 854 FPS

Shooting at 15 yards with my wrist just resting on the top of a folding chair (not very stable) I was able to produce this grouping. Point of aim was just at the bottom of the square of duct tape. I think the two loose shoots were clearly my fault and the not the gun's or load's fault.
Attachment 127874

Any thoughts?
Thanks

P.S.
I plan to shoot this load through all three of my Uberti revolvers on a more stable base to see what kind of grouping I get with them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Southern Shooter

Any thoughts?

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You didn't say how your Triple 7 results compare with your black powder results.

CM

I don't use black powder...yet. Was mainly passing this on since there seems to be so much discussion as to whether Triple Seven fffg should be used in a cartridge. I thought the velocities were at fair speeds and consistent, the grouping was ok...a bit off point of aim..., and, my gun did not explode :-)

Does anyone have an idea of what pressure this combination might generate?

I think that your best source for that would be maker of the propellant. They are the ones with all of the lab equipment.
You should try the real BP in that Uberti revolver. It's used all the time in SASS matches. I shoot 2 Uberti Smokewagons in 44WCF. The real BP gives you the Big grin along with great results. Take Care David

I use "holy black" in my cap and ball revolvers.

I have read reports of a "crud ring" in front of the chamber of guns when using Triple 7 that is difficult to clean out. Any one have any real experience with this?

I really would like to try BP in my Uberti revolvers. Just to see what the cowboys of old actually felt. :-)

FYI:
Today, I took my 5 1/2" Navy Arms Uberti to the range and fired off my last 6 boolits that I had loaded up with 23 grains of Triple Seven fffg. Wanted to see how they performed in comparison to the 4 5/8" revolver.

The numbers were:
920
900
899
904
903
911
AVE=906 FPS

I have been told multiple times about how slow the velocities would be with this powder. To me, these are respectable speeds pushing a 265 grain boolit. I think they would be plenty enough for woods protection in Louisiana.

Southern Shooter;
That's pretty dern close to the original .45 Colt Black Powder load. That should be VERY effective!

As a kind of comparison - I've chronographed the Lyman 452664 (30/1 lead/tin weighing 250 grs) sized to .452" ahead of a case full of Swiss 3F at just under 1000 fps out of my 5½" Bisley Vaquero. They shot right at 1.5-2.0" at 25 yards off a rest.

FWIW
Dale53

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Southern Shooter

I don't use black powder...yet. Was mainly passing this on since there seems to be so much discussion as to whether Triple Seven fffg should be used in a cartridge. I thought the velocities were at fair speeds and consistent, the grouping was ok...a bit off point of aim..., and, my gun did not explode :-)

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Been seeing this bit about 777 not supposed to be used in cartridges quite a bit as of late.. While I have no particular desire to use the stuff, folks that do probably ought to check the data on Hogdons web site.
Triple Seven In Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only. Cartridge loads should be used exactly as listed in this pamphlet. You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do not reduce loads by means of filler wads or inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation, which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property. Do not create loads for cartridges not listed. Contact Hodgdon Powder Company for recommendations concerning other loads. *See WARNINGS below.

They also do give data for a number of different cartridges, and as far as the pressure goes, while they don't list it, I would assume that the pressures would be at or below SAAMI spec.

I failed to mention that the 23 grains of Triple Seven fffg just touches the bottom of the boolit. As far as I can tell no gap of space nor compressing of powder.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hickok

I use "holy black" in my cap and ball revolvers.

I have read reports of a "crud ring" in front of the chamber of guns when using Triple 7 that is difficult to clean out. Any one have any real experience with this?

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I have shot thousands of rounds through several Pietta 1858's with Tripple 7 fff.
I have never experienced this "crud ring".
It has by far been the easiest clean up of any powder and Does not cause corrosion like Black, I can let my guns set for days before cleaning without any rust starting.
Powders I have used in the 1858 with round ball:
Tripple 7 fff, ff
Pyro P
Elephant
Swiss
Goex
Clean Shot

I have not found real black to cause any more corrosion than when I shoot smokeless. Maybe I just use the right lube or maybe the right amount, but on occasion i have been known to shoot a Cowboy match and put the guns away for 2 weeks, then shoot another match. Once I even did this twice, shooting 3 matches in 6 weeks and didn't clean the guns until a week after the 3rd shoot. No rust. Imagine that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Springfield

I have not found real black to cause any more corrosion than when I shoot smokeless. Maybe I just use the right lube or maybe the right amount, but on occasion i have been known to shoot a Cowboy match and put the guns away for 2 weeks, then shoot another match. Once I even did this twice, shooting 3 matches in 6 weeks and didn't clean the guns until a week after the 3rd shoot. No rust. Imagine that.

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and what was the humidity in those three weeks? don't get me wrong here ... I love the real thing and use it all the time ... but ... you brag of a test that if done here on the damp Oregon coast would ruin a firearm for life. especially in the damp weather of winter time where the water just about drips outta the air at times.

I doubt that any powder [blackpowder, or aftermarket blackpowder either one] would pass your test of the three week and three shooting times in that period for a no rust test.

wish I could back you up there but I do know the difference between here and the interior of Alaska where I just moved from ... there it is so dry year round that I nearly forgot the humidity problems experienced in places here on the west coast.

glad your revolvers came thru that experience in good shape but I also have to say that this would be the exception and not the norm.

Looks good to me. :D

I loved shooting Real Black Powder though my Uberti cattleman and my Marlin 94 cowboy. We used lee .454 RNFP and .454 round balls. This was a few years back, with my reloading/casting mentor. My problem is that I am obsessive compulsive about keeping my guns and brass clean.
I'm glad to see that you got good results with the Triple Seven fffg. I'll have to give it a try someday.

I have been shooting 777 in my colt 45 cartridges for a long time now. I use 15-20 grains of ffg and fill the rest of the case with corn meal. I am using round ball lubed with johnsons paste wax.
I have shot thousands of rounds this way with no problems. It wasn't until recently that I have read the warnings on hogdons web site about not compressing or using fillers or wads. Maybe it is because i am loading a reduced load?
I wonder if anybody else has had any luck with this? I believe a lot the CAS guys use this combination with not problem.
What exactly is the possible problem?