9mm load data question

Hello all,

I'm new to reloading but have been browsing this site over the past 6 months collecting little bits of information here and there. I'm just getting into the first few test loads in 9mm and have a couple questions, hopefully this is the right place. My first test was just 10 rounds loaded with a 115 grain FMJ made by Browning and 4.2 grains of Bullseye. The manual i'm reading from specifies this should work out to 1050 fps out of a 4" barrel. The problem is, shooting out of my Walther PPQ, 2-3 of them had issues cycling the action, locking the slide back, etc. All indicating too light of a load. The only thing I can think of that I may have done wrong is the COL. The book calls for 1.100" COL and I loaded them to 1.162", which is what I measured on the factory rounds that those bullets were pulled from. Would that difference in COL have any significant change in pressure/velocity? I'm hesitant to start increasing the powder charge until I have access to a chronograph

9mm has little room to mess with since the case is small but it's a high pressure round. 6% change in OAL is a lot for 9mm. You must not compare a specific book load to an OEM round wherein you have no idea what powder is in there. Although I often mention the fallacy in books and how different they can be one to another, you must follow the recipe in the book when dealing with 9X19 as a novice.

I, too, think you're playing with fire as a novice. It sounds like you don't have data specific to these bullets. Varying bullets lengths can mean more or less powder. They can be loaded safely but may be safer once you have more rounds under your belt..

I'd suggest getting a couple boxes of bullets for which you have known data for and work with those until you gain a feel for the process. Then revisit these bullets.

Have fun.

Yes, the longer OAL may definitely reduce the psi in the small 9mm case reducing the recoil impulse causing the failure to completely cycle the slide to the rear. The OAL and, thus, the seating depth is controlled by the form of the bullet. With a given OAL a bullet with blunter shape (ogive) will have less bullet inside the case.

Your 4.2 gr load of Bullseye is in the neighborhood of a "start" load in some manuals. Also, the Walther PPQ is made to cycle with service level 9mm loads. I suggest you try 4.5 and 4.8 gr of Bullseye under that bullet seated to the 1.162" OAL.

Yes I realize that was a mistake and I should have initially seated to the book 1.100" and 4.2 grains as the starting load. I only have a handful of those FMJ's left so I have decided to switch to an Xtreme 115 gr RN thats plated, that way I have enough to dial in a range load. But on that same note of COL: how do you know where to start when working with a new projectile? Xtreme recommends using load data for FMJ projectiles and keeping them under 1200 FPS. My thinking is that the only way to keep consistency between different projectiles is to calculate the case volume? On the other hand it seems many people find a length that functions well in their handgun and then adjust the powder charge accordingly. Which is the correct method?

Maybe I misunderstood. Do you know the manufacturer of the bullets you're trying to work up? If so, they should specify seating depth. Then the question is, will that depth work (plunk test) in your chamber? It probably will if it's under the longer depth you used.

On the other hand, if you only have a handful of unknown bullets (and access to plenty of known bullets) it's probably not worth working them up at this point.

Because you can't assume that if 4.x works with one brand/type of bullet that it's going to work with the Xtreme plated bullets.

Hopefully I'm understanding you correctly.

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Originally Posted by AlHunt

Maybe I misunderstood. Do you know the manufacturer of the bullets you're trying to work up? If so, they should specify seating depth. Then the question is, will that depth work (plunk test) in your chamber? It probably will if it's under the longer depth you used.

On the other hand, if you only have a handful of unknown bullets (and access to plenty of known bullets) it's probably not worth working them up at this point.

Because you can't assume that if 4.x works with one brand/type of bullet that it's going to work with the Xtreme plated bullets.

Hopefully I'm understanding you correctly.

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Yes those bullets I originally asked about had been pulled from range pickups, all of them browning manufacture. I was a little over eager to try the first few handloads in 9mm and loaded a few of those. I'm now deciding to, like you say, quit with the unknown bullets I have left and start over with the large number of Xtreme bullets I just recieved.

I'm not assuming the powder charge will remain the same, I know i'll be starting over with the new projectiles, i'm just not very clear on the seating depth...Xtreme doesn't specify this anywhere that I can find. Others I have read using the same projectiles seem to fall in the 1.130" - 1.135" range. Everything from 1.100 to 1.164 has passed the plunk test on my PPQ thus far.

Hopefully i've made this clear. I know where I made the mistake originally and now I suppose I'm just asking about COL for these Xtreme projectiles

My way may not be the right way but has worked for me.

I used the COL for the same type of bullet I am loading. My 9mm bullets are 122 TC from Magma molds but that bullet is not listed on the Hodgdon data so I used the data for a 124 bullet of the same profile. Started with a load about 1/3 of the way between start and max. It worked in every 9mm so I was done. All I use cast bullets for in the 9mm is to get cheap practice ammunition. If it did not work (cycle the action), I would increase by .2 gr until gun functions reliably. COL can affect feeding but I have been lucky. If you change COL, the previous posts have addressed the affect on pressure and you should adjust loads to compensate.

the post by larry above is your best bet.

starting loads are just that and a lot of times, not always, are on the edge of 'low end' for cycling semi auto actions.

a few tenths of powder more at the OAL YOU'RE USING NOW will most likely clear up your cycling issues.

good luck

It can be good when that start load does not fully cycle you know where you are and can work up a tenth or two at a time until they cycle like they should. That is why you start with 5 to 10 rounds at a time when working up loads.

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Originally Posted by The1970's

Yes those bullets I originally asked about had been pulled from range pickups, all of them browning manufacture. I was a little over eager to try the first few handloads in 9mm and loaded a few of those. I'm now deciding to, like you say, quit with the unknown bullets I have left and start over with the large number of Xtreme bullets I just recieved.

I'm not assuming the powder charge will remain the same, I know i'll be starting over with the new projectiles, i'm just not very clear on the seating depth...Xtreme doesn't specify this anywhere that I can find. Others I have read using the same projectiles seem to fall in the 1.130" - 1.135" range. Everything from 1.100 to 1.164 has passed the plunk test on my PPQ thus far.

Hopefully i've made this clear. I know where I made the mistake originally and now I suppose I'm just asking about COL for these Xtreme projectiles

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I think that's a good decision. You could probably wing it a bit on the seating depth. I looked at the Xtreme site and they don't seem to have that info. But they do have a PDF reloading manual that probably has it. For 10 bucks!
https://www.xtremebullets.com/category-s/50195.htm

Alternatively, maybe email or call them. It seems like that basic information should be readily available.

Enjoy your new reloads!

Thanks everyone for the pointers. I realize i'm asking some pretty basic questions...

I think i've got enough info now to be (hopefully not) dangerous so i'll load up another 10 here soon and give them a try.

I did find and purchase the PDF manual that Xtreme sells, I must have missed it on their site the first time around. Admittedly their site isn't very user friendly. I haven't received the download email yet but when I do I will share the info here for anyone who comes across this thread at a later date.

Not really a basic question. Many folks have trouble with 9mm loads.

My HK is set up for service level 9mm loads and won't cycle anything unless it is near max load. I will be getting a 17lb recoil spring for it so I don't have to push the loads so much.

Surprising though is it feeds a lot of bullets I didn't think it would, including the little Lee 105 SWC.

Just to update and finalize the question in regard to OAL of the Xtreme 115 gr RN plated projectiles, the Xtreme reloading manual suggests an OAL of 1.150" and a load of 4.2 grains of Tightgroup. This info is listed for all of the bullets they produce, otherwise the manual is basically useless imo

If the cartridge COL you used in your first attempt fit in the magazine and fed into the chamber, stay with it and ad powder as Larry mentioned, but make sure they will drop freely and completely into the chamber with the barrel out of the gun. You want to ensure that the slide is not required to FORCE them into the chamber. If they don’t drop right into the chamber and then fall right out when you rotate the barrel muzzle upward, you should try shortening the COL to something between the recommendation of the bullet maker and your previous load.