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does lube come off boolit as it leaves barrel
I just got done pan lubing my first batch of cast,(44-250-K) some of the boolits have some lube in the crimp band and on the bullet tips. Should I scrape that off for accuracy or will it fly off when it leaves the muzzle? Some of the lube bands aren't perfectly symetrical with lube. Should I re lube those or are they ok? Thanks
Most if not all does fly off from the spin.
You can usually see some of it on the end of the barrel.
At the RPM those boolits are spinning I can't imagine any soft lube stays on more than a nanosecond after exiting the bore. Harder, heavy on the wax lubes perhaps, I've picked up fired pistol boolits with hard lube with lube still in the grooves.
Don't think I've ever seen lube in rifle bullets. At least I don't recall any.
I have dug the Occasional bullet out of the dirt backstop after shooting that do have a smidge of lube still on, but most are bare. Whether that is from the centrifugal forces in flight, or scrubbing in the dirt, don't know.
Suppose it does matter on application somewhat - but most pistol bullets seem not to run out of lube (leading often seems to be other tings going on) and might keep some on after the muzzle. Rifle bullets should carry lube all the way down the bore too.
Worst thing for me about leaving lube on noses and crimp grooves after pan lubing - it deposits in the die and very much Can mess up seated OAL after time -- it comes off in the die and gets pushed up into the seating stem nose.
I clean mine after pan lubing (fingernail against and rotate the bullet - even easy on groove), but slow accumulation is accumulation, and if I see weird things going on in loading (like a round coming out of seating w/ a gob of lube on the nose, or odd placement of case mouth in crimp groove) I pull the dies down and clean them.
Some lubes "fling off" the bullet when it leaves the muzzle, some don't.
Ideally you want one or the other, and not something halfway in between.
If you want to know what your lube does, you should test it.
Put a piece of carboard a couple feet in front of your muzzle and pull the trigger.
It will be lube splattered (uniformly shot to shot), or you see no lube.
YES; the lube will fly off; I would be more concerned with all the junk the extra lube will pick up before chambering and firing ???Quote:
Originally Posted by smokyCMP
I just wipe the lube off once the cartridges are crimped. You have to clean the seating die every so often to remove lube from the seating stem.
If I have lube in 80% of each grove in my 44's or 45's I just shoot them. Never had any issues but I'm not the best handgun shooter where I worry about accuracy better the 5 in a 6" paper plate at 15 yds.
Hmm... Re-read my earlier reply and I guess I was not thinking / focusing on the question(s) at that time. Even my response looks weird now... Perhaps even stooopid...
So, no, some lube on the nose of a pistol bullet is unlikely to cause any accuracy issue. "Some" being pretty vague... Yes, like Minerat, After crimping I usually do wipe them off, and it is to keep "crud" off them as Blahut says. I don't really like random grit being taken down the bore.
It does depend though on use as to how clean I try to get them.
Store for a while? Use for hunting, where it may be carried and unloaded after loading, perhaps even several times? I will wipe them well.
Take very soon to range to test a new powder or something? Just wipe them if it looks "necessary" -- I will wipe anything off that is picked up in the box when they are loaded anyway (as the nose of the bullet may be tacky w/ some lube, and there might have been some cleaning media particle or burnt powder particles in the box from prior rounds having been put in the box after firing or tumbling).
Lube grooves not filled, OK for use? No, I don't like that myself, and strive to ensure that they are all filled.
In sizing pan lubed bullets (I use a LEE or NOE push through), some lube gets shoved into a ring at the die entrance - if I find a bullet w/o a filled groove before sizing, I just take a pinch of that and smear it into the band where it was deficient and then size.
Why?
The lube does several things: It creates a film between the bullet and bore that reduces reduces friction & the lack of direct contact between the metals is meant to stop surface stripping/shearing of the bullet metal as it travels down the bore. This is what many thing of when they think "lube". But is does more than this, it also makes a viscous "plug" to stop gas blow by as the powder combusts.
While the lube in the grooves is not static, and does flow / pump by forces during firing (Linear and rotational acceleration, gas pressure, etc.) if there are gaps in the lube band(s)/grooves - some bullets have one, some several -- then there is a chance of gas blow by or direct bullet metal contact to bore during firing. That leads to leading and other issues. The blow by itself causes cutting, lead deposits, imbalance issues, etc.
So, No, I try not to leave gaps in lube groove filling.
Don't know what I was (not) thinking when I responded earlier... Hopefully this correction / new comment makes more sense.
As for partially filled grooves - this is best avoided in long range black powder rifle bullets. Generally the soft boolits can/wil obduratye in the barrel. Un even groove fill would allow uneven obduration resultiung in an unbalenced boolit. This might mean a missed target. I hgave seen some commercail lube on pistol boolits that stayed on till the end. It was blue and shot from a 45-70 at about 1300fps over 600 yards.
obturate
Hard lubes , like those that require heat to flow through the lube/sizer , can stay in the boolit lube-groove ... I've picked up plenty when berm-mining , all still filled with hard Red or Blue lube ... the reason I don't use hard lube .
If a lube is "Soft" it should be soft enough not to interfer with boolit seating ... if it does interfer ... clean it off and out of the crimp groove ...it's too hard !
Soft lubes tend to be left in the barrel , on the muzzel and if enough is on the boolit ...
even splatter on the target ...but that's a LOT of lube or you too close to target .
My advice ... use soft lube and clean lube from boolit so it does't affect boolit seating and crimping .
Put boolit lube in lube groove ... clean boolit base of lube too .
Gary
I pan lube and keep the lube shallow enough so that lube never gets into the crimp band (AKA cannelure). I don’t think lube there will negatively effect accuracy, but it could effect your crimp quality - it’s an incompressible fluid/wax preventing a complete crimp. I have left lube in a cannelure before and it oozed out after the crimp - I didn’t like that.
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If your cannelure is deep and you have a light crimp, it won’t matter. If your cannelure is shallow and you’re crimping firmly for H110, I would wipe it out.
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If your oven isn’t level and your lube pan is wide, it can become impossible to prevent lube from getting into the cannelure of some boolits. If that is the case for you, switch to a smaller pan - I use altoid mint trays. Keep the tray & lube weight below a max setting, and your cannelures will stay clean.
Actual question: How big of a deal is it to not have clean bases?Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle
Not talking gobs of lube, or bullets pushed through a sizer w/ lube under the base causing canted sizing, my question is about residual lube on the base of the bullet during loading.
If stored for a long time, I could sympathize with the desire to remove the lube, but if used within a week or stored such that the powder is not in contact w/ the base, I don't really care anymore.
Why do I say this?
I ran a mini "test" (Not thorough, not rigorous) a year or so ago where I loaded some 8x57 rounds purposefully w/ bullets that had notable lube on their bases - 50/50 with Lithium grease added. I set the rounds in the countertop Bullet Down in the box, for a week, to get the powder in direct contact w/ the lube, in an attempt to draw off some of the oil in the grease and contaminate the charge. I forget at this moment if the charge was 16 gr 2400, or 10 gr Bullseye. Bullet was a 196 gr GC SAECO.
I took these to the range and shot side by side w/ rounds prepared by cleaning the bases, bullet up in box for a week, same charge, etc. I remember it being 100 yd 20 round group comparison.
Result: Absolutely no change in group size, offset from aiming pt, etc., and the loads (whichever I used for the comparison) shoot well for me in the rifle I used.
Don't get me wrong, I see how lube on a bullet base is a bad idea, and again, if I will store them for a while or use for hunting I will clean the bases, but often I just don't bother anymore as long as the rounds are used "soon".
Thoughts?
I've wondered about that many times and have shot both ways without noticeable difference using WLL 2500+. This is with rifle rounds loaded for CBA match use.Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle
I wipe the gas check across a rag to remove lube but is a pain to do. Since I normally shoot shortly after loading and always store rounds base down it might not matter at all.
TurnipEater's experience matches mine but lube type may matter.
If you're working with a soft bullet lube you can finger lube bullets too. The old lube experimenters of old would simply dab a little lube on their index finger and pack it into the lube groove that way. I've tried it, and it works really well if you are only doing a dozen or two at a time. This worked perfectly with Felix' lube, and many of the other types as long as they were medium soft.
I suppose I should add that you should never stick your finger in molten or hot wax. That's a great way to get a nasty burn if you misjudge the temp of the bullet lube.
Quote:
.. clean boolit base of lube too .
Some powders will react to some lube ingredients. I don't know which? A good wax based lube recipe will usually have the oils locked into the wax matrix...and will not separate, even when heated/melted to moderate temperature. I'm reasonably sure a oil-less wax will not effect a gun powder...same goes for a lube where all the oils are locked in the matrix. If you have a lube that will separate oil from wax as it ages or when when sitting in a car trunk on a sunny summer afternoon, that may cause a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by TurnipEaterDown
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My 2¢ is most of the time, there is likely no problems.