Lead Wire Extruder Design?

Ok so I decided to make a beafy lead wire extruder using a 50 ton hydraulic(12" stroke) combined with a 10k psi electric pump. The hydraulic will lay horizontally in some heavy I beams. I'm interested in making lead ingot cylinders 10"×2" to fead it. Wire will be desired at .350mm I got a few questions...

1 - will this be enough pressure to perform extrusion?

2- is there a better pump that will drive the hydraulic a bit faster?

3- is there a longer hydraulic stroke available seeing as how I want to do as much extrusion safely as possible per hr?

I would look at Corbins.com for the lead wire extrusion calculator.

.35MM? Are you making fishing line weight? That is only .014"!

You are thinking about this the wrong way. Stroke isn't that important. Drive cylinder diameter is. If you had a 6" diameter billet, you don't need a lot of stroke as it's the volume of lead in the billet that determines wire length, not the length of the stroke.

For instance, for a 2 x10" billet, extruding .185 wire, your dial pressure of the hydraulic fluid would be 4884 pounds for a 3.25" drive cylinder which is the standard size that corbin uses. Increase the drive diameter to 5", the pressure drops to 2063# which is getting to be more reasonable. For a 10" billet the software says you should use a 15" long stroke.

If you drop the billet length to 8", your stroke drops to 12". For a 2 x 8" billet of BHN 5 lead, and a 5" drive cylinder, you are getting dial pressures of 1820#. That will produce 934" of .185 wire which is just a little over 10#. 934" is almost 78 feet!

Suggest you get the biggest diameter cylinder you can find. I am sure that the pump is sized to the cylinder. A 6" cylinder drops the pressure to 1263#, 8" further still to 710# Lower pressure is always better. Less pressure equals less heat in the wire. You would be amazed at how hot the wire is coming out of that extruder nozzle, hot enough to burn you and uncomfortable to handle even with leather gloves

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Originally Posted by Zbench

.35MM? Are you making fishing line weight? That is only .014"!

You are thinking about this the wrong way. Stroke isn't that important. Drive cylinder diameter is. If you had a 6" diameter billet, you don't need a lot of stroke as it's the volume of lead in the billet that determines wire length, not the length of the stroke.

For instance, for a 2 x10" billet, extruding .185 wire, your dial pressure of the hydraulic fluid would be 4884 pounds for a 3.25" drive cylinder which is the standard size that corbin uses. Increase the drive diameter to 5", the pressure drops to 2063# which is getting to be more reasonable. For a 10" billet the software says you should use a 15" long stroke.

If you drop the billet length to 8", your stroke drops to 12". For a 2 x 8" billet of BHN 5 lead, and a 5" drive cylinder, you are getting dial pressures of 1820#. That will produce 934" of .185 wire which is just a little over 10#. 934" is almost 78 feet!

Suggest you get the biggest diameter cylinder you can find. I am sure that the pump is sized to the cylinder. A 6" cylinder drops the pressure to 1263#, 8" further still to 710# Lower pressure is always better. Less pressure equals less heat in the wire. You would be amazed at how hot the wire is coming out of that extruder nozzle, hot enough to burn you and uncomfortable to handle even with leather gloves

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This was extremely helpful thank you I am going for 1/4" & 3/8" size wire I wished to say inches not mm that would have been probably pencil lead lol. If say I find a ram with a 12" stroke that is 3" in diameter would it be acceptable to use a die that is 5" in diameter ?

My extrusion set up is on a smaller scale than what you envision but I will give you my dimensions and pressures. My hydraulic cylinder is 3.5 in. In diameter and I operate it at 1750 psi. The billet is only 0.780 diameter and 4 in. long. It extrudes soft lead wire from 0.187 to over 0.400 wire quite easily. My math shows I have about 37,000 psi at the head of the punch. Maybe this will give you an idea of the size hydraulic cylinder you need. It seems to me that the bigger the better. The whole thing hinges on the ratio between the surface area of hydraulic ram & the surface area of the head of the punch.

Bob

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Originally Posted by Bobbyboy55

This was extremely helpful thank you I am going for 1/4" & 3/8" size wire I wished to say inches not mm that would have been probably pencil lead lol. If say I find a ram with a 12" stroke that is 3" in diameter would it be acceptable to use a die that is 5" in diameter ?

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No way. a 5" diameter billet that is 8" long needs 9853 pounds of pressure to get that done with .185. Again, the diameter of the cylinder is the important part. I sometimes struggle with my Corbin when it's cold as it just has enough power to extrude .185. If you are working with I beams, there is no downside to getting a big cylinder. You should shoot for extrusion pressures around 2000 psi max. Even .25" wire needs 7200# of pressure.

The set of extruding dies in the pics are for a Corbin Hydro Press.

They may give you an idea as to what you could base your extruding dies on, perhaps scaled up a bit, and build a power source to match.

RRR

Attachment 234484Attachment 234483Attachment 234485Attachment 234486

I use a .82 billet to make wire in a 10 ton manual log splitter I must heat the lead to around 300 degrees to get it to extrude. I extrude .185".312' & 7/16 wire the last one does not cut consistently enough to bother with the two smaller ones can be used as cut weight wise.

I've decided to go with a log splitter hydraulic cylinder with a 4 inch bore ,24 inch stroke . It's rated at 50 tons and will be combined with a 15hp motor I'm interested in using 5"x14" billets to extrude wire at 5/16"

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Originally Posted by Bobbyboy55

I've decided to go with a log splitter hydraulic cylinder with a 4 inch bore ,24 inch stroke . It's rated at 50 tons and will be combined with a 15hp motor I'm interested in using 5"x14" billets to extrude wire at 5/16"

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As a very basic rule, you'll get the best results when your billet is approximately 25% of the diameter of your cylinder, and 65% of the stroke length. That's not hard and fast, but it's a good rule of thumb for extruding soft lead wire in the diameters normally used by bullet swagers.

A bigger motor, unless it's pushing a higher pressure pump, won't really increase the capacity, just the speed the lead extrudes. If it's not producing enough pressure to extrude the billet, the cylinder will just stall, no matter how high the flow rate through the pump.

With that said, a 4x24 cylinder would ideally extrude a billet approximately 1x16. The billet will weigh about 5 lbs. To extrude the 100lb+ billet that you want will require a much more substantial hydraulic cylinder than what most log splitters use.

I can see all the discussion about pressures was lost on you. Good luck with your rig. With fluid pressures in excess of 7000#, you will need it!

Can you tell me the formula you used to get 7000#. I'm sure there are many factors including temp, size, and stop point given this being said. I am using a billet 3" *10" and will stop when billet reaches 3"×2" reducing friction I will preheat each billet too 300 degrees f . I believe a 50 ton hydraulic cylinder combined with a 4000 psi 15hp power unit should be more than sufficient. Please post your math thank you.

Corbin's Lead Extrusion Calculator

Zbench can you please email me a copy of that software id gladly send you some lead once im all built

drpepper3400@gmail.com

Bobby,

You can buy a copy for yourself at Corbin's website. It's licensed to me. I have it because I extrude my own, but I thank you for the offer.

Anyone made a basic one with a bottle jack??? Its been done....

it would be cheaper for you to find a Linotype extruder and convert to wire . i was in the printing business . . i sure there are plenty around In city area. i had one . simple to use no pressure . simple Melt . blend , Chill to wire. or Lino Rods