Printable View
Once again a clear thinking person has responded. I am in complete agreement with Mr Smale. Once a good load is reached and then one spends countless hours on the bench trying to get another quarter inch smaller group is not good. That extra time is much, much, much, much, much better spent practicing with the good load shooting from different positions like ones used in the hunting situations than chasing the elusive swoon over benchrest group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale
Interesting responses. I shoot handguns from the bench, with my hands supported, but not with a rest. It's practice that's beneficial in developing trigger control and grip and sight picture consistency. But I also practice offhand shooting in both target style and defensive stuff.
I crimp pretty heavy on all revolver loads normally. I've found somewhere in the range of .010 difference in length using mixed brass. Not that one brand is long or short but rather there will be an odd couple of x headstamps that are longer than norm. Rather than measure them all I trim them all. I have measured all the brass of a given lot to cull out the unduly short and long examples.
Lloyd, thanks for your comments. You shoot much more than me. At one time I was shooting 500 rounds a week with most of it rimfire but now I'm doing good to shoot 200 rounds a month.
It seems we have flapping gums here. I don't trim my traditional handgun calibers, but I do think trimming once to uniform the length on revolver cases would give a better end result when you use a heath roll crimp. I finish 4th or better in any match I ever shot in, so hear me roar...honestly, spare us.
do what you want but theres not need for personal attacks here.
Um, this really isn't that big of a deal.
If your brass is longer than you want it, and you feel like trimming it because of the extra weight; by all means, trim it.
like !Quote:
Originally Posted by win94ae
So, many folks think trimming revolver brass is a waste of time and effort. But what about consistency in the length and then crimp. If you don't trim, do you cull out the long brass? Or is your crimp so light that it will allow for the variation in length? Unless of course you use a collet crimp die as some have said.
In my experience it makes more difference if you are seating and crimping in the same die the longer cases may scrape the bullet when being crimped while seating with a separate crimp die the mouth of the case will be over the crimp groove so no scraping when crimping , yes some of the crimps will be a little heavier than others but will not have a practical impact on accuracy for my use. And there are people here that have much more knowledge and experience than I have whose opinions i very much respect that say the same thing.
I have done it both ways and gave up trimming straight wall pistol cases when I went to separate crimp dies.
If for some reason you wound up with some really short cases (like some Hornady) they are in a separate batch.
The Lee carbide factory crimp die does the same thing for me on auto pistol rounds about 90% of the time.
Like win94ae said if it makes you feel better , or what you are loading for demands the extra precision trim them.
Do you keep your revolver brass in cases and mark how often it has been fired? Do you measure every five or seven times it's shot to see if it's stretching? If so you probably trim all cases when it is. If my loads are all crimping in the groove I don't bother to check length but surely do check it when I have one that doesn't.
My own handgun brass these days is thrown in a bag, tumbled, checked for cracks and loaded. When I get a loose primer pocket it's tossed and I check a whole bunch when I do find they have stretched.
RCBS's X dies have shown me far more cases stretch longitudinally from a sizer die than from being fired.
I have no comment on trimming and any effect on accuracy. I do trim 38 Special and other straight wall pistol brass to aid with more consistent seating depths.
I used to shoot range pickup brass. So, I had quite a mix of headstamps. While loading Magtech brass in particular, it'd hangup in the die. I measured the Magtech brass and found it to be longer than other brands. I started trimming the Magtech brass with a Lee case length gauge trimmer and found I could remove a lot of brass doing so. They never hung up in the die after being trimmed. I then segregated the Magtech brass and kept track of the number of firings. I got up to half a dozen firings on that brass and it never needed trimming again.
I like Magtech brass. I read somewhere long ago where someone did a longevity study on it and it outlasted many brands by twice as long. Anyway, I bought a bunch of it years ago. In my experience it is longer in length than other brands by a wide margin. So, I always fire new cases one time, then trim them before reloading. It is a chore, but I feel it eliminates a lot of variance in length and I easily get more uniform seating long after.
I shoot Starline's 360DW in my Handi rifle. I have batches going on 3 or 4 firings and I see quite a variance in case length. They'll get trimmed to so I can get more uniform seating depth to.
yup last I knew a 44 mag bench rest competition doesn't exist. Whats next. 44 mag bench rest dies and loading them on an arbor press. Weights sorting matched headstamp brass, truing primer pockets?? Air gauged hand lapped 3 inch diameter super black hawk barrels??? Some shoot some talk about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 44MAG#1
Hit all new to me brass. Random sample mic after a couple firings. Usually wear them out before they need trimmed again. The brass that is exclusively for the hotter loads do tend to grow a tad bit but seldom enough to cause concern. 9.5 unique 250K, 18.5 IMR4227 300wfngc, two .45rb swaged to .431 6.5 reddot. Pretty much covers the gambit of pressures for the .44.
I suggest you set up your caliper to the maximum case length for the .44 or .357 Magnum and just see how many pass through; those that don't, set aside and trim them. You might be surprised how many need trimming. I hate case trimming and have heard others say the same thing. I have a jig using a Forester trimmer that I adapted to use a power drill on the cutter. Makes teh tedious job a lot easier. Also, I saw this post in another forum that I found to be quite true...
I have never bothered trimming any pistol brass so this is my first experience with it and am curious what you guys find acceptable for variations when you are done. I did size my brass before trimming.
I have some older .357 Mag brass that had some wildly varying lengths (1.270-1.293). I was seeing some pretty sloppy crimps because of this.
When I trim brass, any that is .002 short goes in the batch and any shorter is culled. I size first or course. The last starline 44 mag I trimmed was a touch short or barely on.
What do you do with the culled cases? I will examine Magnum brass for neck splits----any that have splits short enough I will trim to .38 or .44 Special length. In my M-27 or Taurus 66, I like to shoot the 358429 which seat too long, when crimped in the crimping groove. So I trimmed a batch I label as .357 Magnum short...that are trimmed just enough that I can load the 358429 in the pistols mentioned.
I trim all my revolver centerfire cases. Once!
Then I inside chamfer and debur.
Then I inside flashole debur them ..... all of them.
Now I am set for a long time. I do not recall needing to re-trim again.
What am I after? Better crimps. No fiddling or sorting and re-running or crumpled cases. A long case with the boolit crimp groove situated below optimum to it and you end up with the edge of the case mouth swagged or creased. Most of these rimmed straight wall cases will fail from mouth splits. Over working those case mouths lead to tossed cases sooner.
I reserve my right to trim auto cases if I see fit but as most headspace on the mouth that can be a red herring.
Do I like trimming? NO. :veryconfu
But as mostly a one off endeavor, I like the results.
Three44s
Thanks for the responses.
When I said I cull short brass I was thinking of 38 specials and 357 magnum. I do several things. Throw them out if I'm in the notion, or put them with the headstamps I don't like for trade.
I've not run into short cases in 44 yet as all of what I have was either new brass or fired by me from factory. I would reserve them for 44 specials though when it happens.
44 special, even when loaded heavily, doesn't seem to need the brass trimmed in the gun I have or with the dies I use. After 4 reloads or so I do take out the lee stud pin gauge thing and give it a whirl. Usually it trims no brass and maybe just shines the end a little and/or squares it up. I full length size every time with my Hornady dies. I don't have a magnum, but I'd imagine it to be basically the same deal. I have some brass, which is all starline, that has perhaps a dozen reloads on it. It just doesn't get stressed or worked too much, and lasts.
To me the reason to trim straight wall revolver brass has more to do with getting a nice, consistent roll crimp than anything else. I like all my brass to be the same length so they all crimp the same, basically. I have no evidence this makes the ammo perform any better but I do like it better this way so I do it.
With some cases, like 357 Herrett in a T/C Contender, I have having all the brass the same length seems to be important. But that seems to be true of all bottlenecked rimmed brass. My 7.62x54R, 30-40, and 30-30s I am very mindful of their case lengths. I always trim all my bottlenecks even the rimless, though those seem to not have as many problems.
With cases like 357 mag/max that get worked more I preform trimming regularly, again with the lee system. I do this for safety reasons.
I usually lose 9mm brass before it needs to be trimmed. Why I like revolvers/singleshots better!
Keep brass separated by headstamps/lots and no need to trim. Might have to adjust dies, after a time. Might not. I never found the need to trim handgun caliber brass.....pistol or revolver. Heck, I don't chamfer or deburr, either. I doubt very much they do that at the factory. As far as flash holes are concerned...............only check to see they are there and not plugged with media. Been working for me for nearly 50 years.
BTW, Hornady brass is almost always short. I just put it aside. When I accumulate 50 in the same caliber, I will load it. Otherwise, it just sits.
Winelover
In 44 special I size .431 which is a bit oversize and I've found chamfering essential on the new starline brass which has a square edge. When you go to crimp it it will ride into and scarf off lead and lube if you don't.Quote:
I don't chamfer or deburr, either.
I enjoy making very nice bullets and ammo. I'm not in it for speed, and I would just buy loaded ammo if I didn't want to make something better than loaded ammo.
With 38/357 I have never needed to chamfer since I side that .357 or .358 and it never needs it.
Attachment 264469
This case has been reloaded 6 times, always full length sized. It has never been tumbled.