Which .450 Marlin rifle: Browning BLR or Winchester 94?

I've got some .450 Marlin handloads on the way (300gr Hornady HP @ 1800fps) for a deer brush gun that I don’t own yet (long story). I do not know which powder is being used or any other load data, as I don't handload myself (yet). I hope to get into handloading when I get back stateside permanently in a few years. Anyway, I was looking at getting a new gun for these bullets: either a Browning BLR (specifically, the Lightweight with Pistol Grip or the Lightweight ’81 with a Straight Grip) or a Winchester 94 (specifically, the current-production Short Rifle).

Here are the things that appear to be the same about both rifles:
1. Blued, 20" barrel.
2. 1:20 twist.
3. Substantial recoil pads from the factory.
4. Made in Japan (possibly by the same factory) and imported by Browning.
5. Excellent quality and fit-and-finish, according to everything I've read.
6. Plenty of complaints about the triggers, but especially about the BLRs. Apparently, the right gunsmith can fix either one; bring the trigger pull down to a crisp, relatively-light pull; and slick the action up.

Here are the major differences, as far as I can tell:

1. The Winchester is about $200 more expensive.
2. The BLR weighs 4 oz. more than the Winchester 94.
3. The BLR has a stronger action, although I'm not sure that will matter with this configuration, especially since I'm dialing these loads way down for whitetails. I will never go to Alaska or Africa -- unless a millionaire on this forum wants to treat me -- but I could potentially find myself hunting Moose, Black Bear, or Elk in the future.
4. For this caliber, there appear to be a LOT more BLR owners than Winchester 94 owners (in fact, I can’t find any evidence of anyone who has posted anywhere online who owns the current-production Winchester 94 Short Rifle in .450 Marlin).
5. The BLR is a unique design with a box magazine, and the 94 is a more traditional lever-action design with a tube magazine -- and they will thus handle, shoulder, and recoil somewhat differently.
6. The 94 has a factory-ported barrel. Opinions on this seem to vary widely, with some people saying the porting doesn’t matter, at all, and some saying it makes a huge difference (both in terms of reducing felt-recoil and muzzle jump and in increasing noise). Some say the noise only affects people around you and does not affect you as the shooter, etc. Some say the added noise is so great that it is a deal-breaker.

One final consideration: whichever model I choose, its first stop -- before I ever pick it up -- will be to a good gunsmith for a full trigger and action job. There seems to be a consensus that Neil Jones is the BLR trigger job master, so that’s settled for the BLR.

Here are my questions:

1. Which would you recommend?
2. Can anyone here recommend a good gunsmith for the trigger/action work on the Winchester 94?
3. If the BLR is the way to go, which of the two BLR configurations would you recommend: the Pistol Grip model or the ’81 model with the Straight Grip?
4. If you have experience with both guns, can you share your experiences?

Many thanks!

I would not buy any rifle chambered for a cartridge that is on the orphan list just because I had ammo for it.

A 45-70 is a far better choice for which countless varieties of ammo is available.

It will also have some resale where as the 450 will only appeal to a narrow bunch of cult cartridge lovers.

M-96 is dead on about this one even though I own a JM Marlin in 450 Marlin. Here's some history.

The 450 Marlin was designed and marketed as "everything the 45-70 wanted to be and couldn't" --- not true.

1. Anything 450 Marlin can do, so can 45-70 ---- IF, AND ONLY IF, you have a MODERN lever, bolt, etc

2. 450 Marlin isn't really a belted mag cartridge. The belt was added so that the round could not chamber in the older trap door Springfield rifles which can't stand modern smokeless pressures

3. 450 Marlin was not developed for the handloading crowd, quite the opposite. It was developed for the non-handloading crowd because there were still some of the 1860 Springfield rifles around and factory ammo HAD to be loaded to pressures that would not blow up the old actions thereby necessitating factory rounds be pretty lethargic. With 450 Marlin, the abilities to "hot rod" 458 caliber bullets was now available in a factory loaded round.

Hey it's a great round, not sure if it will ever go away as it has its uses and like I said, I have one.

If you have a MODERN rifle, Ruger #1' Marlin guide, etc (I've even got one of the old Gibbs 45-70 conversions..) you can pump 45-70's up to 450 Marlin velocities all day long.....and use great big cast bullets too!

Another thing I finally figured out many years ago was the "speed demon" thing -- now no offense is meant here but it occurred to me that the Springfield rifle, or Sharps, or take your pick, shooting 500 grain lead bullets at somewhere around 1100-1400 FPS had almost killed to extinction the American Bison some of whom weighed 2,000 lbs -- so why do I need to punish my shoulder by trying to pump up velocities to 1800-2000 FPS?

MG if you want a 450, go get one! Marlin, Ruger, any of the modern sporting arms will make you happy. Hope I was able to help a bit and not hinder.

Art

Not familiar with the Winchester or Browning, however I used to have a Marlin Guide gun in 450 Marlin and that gun would shoot dang near 3 shot ragged hole groups with the 325grn lever evolution ammo. I had mine set up with a low power scope. A good friend of mine still has his and we were ringing steel with it a few weeks back 180yds with a peep sight and hand loaded cast (405 grn). The Marlin's are very accurate shooters. I sold mine to get a JM Marlin 444. Same gun just a "smaller" caliber.

Sell the ammo to someone who needs it and get a modern 45-70. Load it to equal the 450 when needed, and use trapdoor loads for 99+% of your hunting and practice.

If you feel that none of the above pertains to you, I'd buy the Browning if you ever want to scope the piece. Buy the Winchester if you want to put good peep sights on and have a good carry rifle. I've had both guns and the model 94 is hands down a "handier" rifle for carry in the woods. The Browning always seemed to me as more of a modern deer stand gun. But, that's just me.

Well I am going to be a little different here, if you want a 450, get a 450, I would go 45/70 myself, but I am not you either.
That said I would never buy a gun (any gun) because I had some handloads coming, that someone else loaded, period.

If I was choosing between a winchester and a browning, I would go with the winchester every time, again that is just me and my preferance.

As with a few others, sell or eat the ammo. If you want a big bore lever, go 45-70 by your favorite manufacturer. No need to rehash product lines. If you happen to run short of ammo on a trip, you will not find 450 Marlin in any stores. Useless caliber unless you roll your own.

If you do proceed, hord the brass for a lifetime or two because it will either be 1.00+ a pop by Hordany or non-existantfcost prohibitive.

I have the Winchester TD it is a great gun it is a Winchester. A real hammer the porting helps with muzzle rise and some recoil. The gun is plenty accurate loves the 300 Grain HP

1. Never shoot someone else's reloads.
2. The .450 Marlin should never have been born. The brass is a total oddball.
3. The M94 action is a herky jerky thing. Sort of like operating a 1962 Chevy bumper jack.
4. Yes BLR triggers are terrible but I would still rather have a BLR 81 than a M94.
5. If you still like the Win 94 consider a much better 336 Marlin
6. You seem like a nubie. Buy a .30-30 or .308. The .450 Marlin is a horrible choice for a beginner. Both rifles are way too light and the recoil will be so high they will hurt you.
7. Forget all ported barrels.

I shot a .450 at the range. Then I stood about 15 feet behind the shooter and 4 ft to the right while the owner shot it. I was hit by a grain of powder right below my left eye. Ported barrels are a pretty sorry feature. They make the rifle much louder for everyone.

id recomend the browning over the winchester if your a stand hunter. Unloading the winchester is a bigger pain than the magazine equiped blr. if you hunt like me you unload your gun 3 times every hunt . When you get to the stand, when you leave the stand and when your done.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EDG

1. Never shoot someone else's reloads.
2. The .450 Marlin should never have been born. The brass is a total oddball.
3. The M94 action is a herky jerky thing. Sort of like operating a 1962 Chevy bumper jack.
4. Yes BLR triggers are terrible but I would still rather have a BLR 81 than a M94.
5. If you still like the Win 94 consider a much better 336 Marlin
6. You seem like a nubie. Buy a .30-30 or .308. The .450 Marlin is a horrible choice for a beginner. Both rifles are way too light and the recoil will be so high they will hurt you.
7. Forget all ported barrels.

I shot a .450 at the range. Then I stood about 15 feet behind the shooter and 4 ft to the right while the owner shot it. I was hit by a grain of powder right below my left eye. Ported barrels are a pretty sorry feature. They make the rifle much louder for everyone.

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Difference in folks I guess, I agree with #1, A little with #2, but am just the opposite on the rest.
I am not a fan of the 450, but if a guy is, who am I to tell him, he is wrong. I went with 45/70 myself, and think it is the more logical choice, but again, that is my preference, not everybodys.

Buying ammo for a gun that I don't own.......
Hmmmmmm...
You may be on to something here. I've already used all of the traditional excuses.
headed over to Cabelas to pick up some 458 mag ammo; always wanted to play with one of those.
Thanks bro.

I wasn't aware that Winchester ever made a rifle for the 450 MARLIN. Why would they? I had a BFR in 450 Marlin once. It is was a fun toy but I couldn't get over the comic book look of that loooong cylinder. If I really wanted a 450, I'd search for a JM Marlin and forget the BLR.

I didn’t want to write a novel in my first post on this forum, but I guess I should have given a little bit of backstory on my unusual request. I’m not a new hunter, per se, as I hunt every deer rifle season in Southwest VA with my cousin’s family and their friends, who have been hunting in that area their entire lives. The fact that I don’t own my own rifle probably tells you something; I’m a city-slicker and did not grow up hunting. And I do not currently own my own rifle. I always borrow rifles from my cousin’s collection. I work mainly overseas and haven’t been able to get into rifles. In fact, I’m in Afghanistan right now as I type these words. So I haven’t been able to get into handloading, either.

When I go hunting, I show up, I get a rifle to shoot, my cousin assures me that the sights are on, and off we go. We either hunt from a permanent tree stand or from the ground, against a tree. The woods are thick, but it’s not jungle brush type woods. Around the trees, it’s pretty clear. The shots are maybe 100 yards maximum. Last season, I got a button buck at maybe 15 yards. I was holding right behind his shoulder at the vitals, but I hit him in the gut with my cousin’s .270. He dropped like a stone. My cousin’s friend, who was right behind me when I made the shot, speculated that the bullet had deflected off a twig (there were a few branches close to the shot, but I wasn’t shooting through thick brush), hit the little buck’s ribs, and deflected back into the vitals.

Now that I’m in Afghanistan and making a little money, I thought I’d buy myself a hunting rifle to suit my hunting conditions as my treat to myself this year. I am going back home for deer rifle season, and I’ll show up a few weeks early to sight-in and practice with my new rifle. I’ve been researching hunting rifles that would best suit my situation and hunting conditions, and I decided on a big bore “brush gun” type of rifle with a low-power scope. My cousin and his friends all use high power rifles with 3-9x scopes. I don’t know why; I’ve seen them turn deer meat into deer jelly with 30 yard shots from a magnum rifle, and I’ve even watched them complaining about it while skinning deer. They swear they can kill deer at 600 yards, but I honestly don’t think any of them has ever shot a deer at anywhere near those distances. I don’t understand it, at all. I definitely don’t think I need anything more than a good, heavy bullet and low power scope that’s good out to 100 yards. 200 yards would be a bonus, but I am 99% sure I’ll never take a shot at that range.

Anyway, I got to talking to some people about my plans, and one guy was absolutely insistent that I should get a .450 Marlin Browning BLR. I mean, he can talk about the BLR at length, and he sends me all kinds of reports and links, etc. I’m sure he is a very good hunter with that .450 Marlin BLR, although he does mostly hunt elk. So he convinced me to get one. On the face of it, this is indeed a rifle that meets my criteria and needs. And Browning doesn’t make a BLR in 45-70, unfortunately, so .450 Marlin it is.

From there, I started looking into ammo. As you all know, factory .450 Marlin loads run pretty hot -- more suitable for elk or bigger game. So I contacted a custom ammo maker, a professional who mostly works for safari hunters and competition shooters, and he agreed to make me a more appropriate .450 Marlin load for whitetails. So these aren’t Bubba’s back porch handloader specials; these are professionally-made handloads. So that’s the backstory on the handloads and why I’m getting the ammo before the rifle.

I was all set to go with the BLR, but then I saw that Winchester also makes a .450 Marlin “Short Rifle,” which looks more traditional. I didn’t know anything about it, and I couldn’t find any information about it (in fact, I’m not convinced that anyone has ever bought one!), but I thought, “What the heck?” I might as well look into it. That’s why I posted here, to see if maybe somebody had owned or shot or hunted with both and could give me the rundown on the pros and cons. Well, I’ve read all these posts with great interest. And I acknowledge that there are certainly some good arguments to get a 45-70.

I know that going with a 45-70 would fling the doors wide open on whitetail-appropriate factory rounds, but I don’t want to blow off the professional ammo-maker, since he actually spent a good bit of time talking to me and researching for me. I know he hasn’t started making the loads yet, and I don’t need them until November, but he might have already procured the components. I could always just let him know I need 45-70 ammo instead of .450 Marlin now, and he could just return the .450 Marlin casings and get 45-70 casings. The load would be virtually identical, I’m sure, so it wouldn’t be a major inconvenience for him, and he’ll still get paid. It’s not a major outlay: I ordered 100 rounds @ $268 shipped. I can’t reload myself right now. As I said, I’m in Afghanistan and have been since July. I’ve never reloaded before, and I can’t ship the equipment or components to myself here. Maybe in a few years when I’m back stateside permanently, I can get into reloading.

I’ve gotten no feedback, at all, on the Winchester 94 Short Rifle, and some folks here have echoed the BLR’s praises (which tracks with everything I’ve been reading). The only real complaint about the BLR seems to be the trigger, but Neil Jones can fix that, according to everything I’ve read. $120 dolla’ make you holla’. I’m also not convinced that .450 Marlin brass will disappear. Searching these forums, it seems that people have been saying that for years, and yet, even after Marlin discontinued their .450 Marlin guns, other manufacturers are still making them (granted not a lot of them!), and ammo and components seem to be readily available. Just to be sure, though, when I get back stateside, I’ll buy a few thousand cases and call it a lifetime supply. Following the advice I’ve gotten from this thread, I looked at all the available 45-70 rifles, online, since I can’t actually go to a store and try them out. The Henry H010 looks like a good, handy 45-70, and people seem to like it. There seems to be some ongoing controversy over the new “Remlins.” Sadly, Browning and Winchester do not make a 45-70, except for a few special edition Winchesters with crescent metal butt plates. There are a few custom 45-70 makes (Ranger Point Precision, Grizzly, Brockman, Wild West Guns, etc.). That wouldn’t be beyond the pale for me, as I’ve got the cash right now, and this is my special rifle for me, after all. Bottom line, every rifle seems to have its admirers and its detractors.

Anyway, I’ve made my decision: I’m getting the Browning BLR, but not one of the models I mentioned above. I’m going to go with the sightless Monte Carlo stock version (see pics below), as I plan to mount a Trijicon AccuPoint 1-4x24 scope, which is a true 1x scope, so I don’t see any need for irons. Once I get back stateside in November, I’ll post some pics and a hunting report/rifle and ammo review. I might hunt two states (NH and VA) this season, touch wood.


https://i.imgur.com/57FhUxH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BRNRgdo.jpg

Man that's a lot of work and money getting thrown around just to shoot whitetails at 100 yards or less. I think you'd have been fine with a pawn shop .30-30 or .32 Special and a box or two of corlokt ammo.

I don't doubt that the rifle you described would kill deer dead for my hunting conditions. But I'm going to get something nice. It's a gift to myself for all the time I'm spending in this hell hole.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MG1913

I don't doubt that the rifle you described would kill deer dead for my hunting conditions. But I'm going to get something nice. It's a gift to myself for all the time I'm spending in this hell hole.

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Good for you, MG1913. Get what you want and you will enjoy it more than settling for
a rifle that was your second choice. I see it all the time, folks settling for something less
than what they want. In the grand scheme of things the extra money is not that important.
You only go around once.

I wasn't saying dont get the Browning! I fully understand buying a gun because you want it versus what would probably be "good enough" for the job its going to do. I also understand buying yourself a few presents after a deployment. Heck for that matter after I graduated boot camp I ordered myself a Freedom Arms .454 so I get it.

What you said about your relatives turning deer into deer jelly with close shots using magnums made me think you wanted a little lighter caliber.

Well, they turn deer meat into deer jelly because they use high velocity bolt action rifles, which have become the standard despite the fact that very few hunters take advantage of the potential of those flat-shooting cartridges at appreciable distances over 200 yards. That's what I want to avoid, and people who hunt with a slower-moving, heavy 45-70 round report eating all the way up to the bullet hole.