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Have any of you compared accuracy with powder coated boolits vs lubed and sized boolits with gas checks and without gas checks?
Specifically, I am wondering if anyone has found powder coating without a gas check to be equal in accuracy to a normal sized,lubed and gas checked boolit.
In a number of 30 caliber tests I found that without the GC at velocities exceeding 16~1700fps accuracy is almost non-existent. I have only tested rifle loads and YMMV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shuz
in the 357 mag and 30-30 rifles i have found i get a better grouping if i use the gas check with powder coating. i stopped lubing bullets a long time ago.
GC for both 357 and 223 shows better promise.
Yes.
I started out with my .308 and the Lee 180gn bullet. 1:10 twist barrel. Cast from Hardball alloy. Bottom pour Lee pot.
First hundred or so were with Ben's Red lube. Pan lube and Lee push through sizing die. Hornady gas checks. I could easily get below 2MOA (100 and 200 yds) and sometimes well under 1MOA. Best accuracy for me was in the 1600-1900fps range.
I then decided to try PC. Eastwood Ford Light Blue. Shake and bake. Bullets stood up on a plate.
Without gas checks it was kinda horrible. Sized with Lee die after PC. No tumbling but groups were 3" or more.
With Hornady gas checks groups tightened up. I now get groups regularly around 1MOA. Many less than that and a few closer to 1/2MOA.
Gas check before or after PC? When GC applied after PC the group sizes are about the same, but, I tend to have more fliers. My preferred method is cast, install GC and size, PC, size again.
Accuracy between lubed and PC has been about the same. The difference is I can push the PC bullets faster without leading or losing accuracy. I have fired a few groups of PC bullets at 2400fps and the accuracy was still less than 2MOA (I think it was 3" at 200yd). I have not tried to go faster simply because I like shooting reduced loads. Most of my shooting with PC is done at 1800-2000fps.
My next bullet mold may be a non-gas check design. I believe that the GC is not needed for powder coated bullets to prevent leading. This would remove one step in my bullet making process and may also result in better accuracy. It would require a very good mold to produce a perfect base.
Shuz, I'll offer up one example. I have been shooting a military bolt match, monthly, for many years. My preferred rifle is a CMP issued 03A3 (I swear it was brand new in cosmoline when I got it - lucky me!). It now has well in excess of 6K cast rounds, NO jacketed. Match is shot at 100 yards, 50 record rounds.
My usual boolits have been Lyman and NOE 311299/312299, SAECO #301, and RCBS 30-180-SP all with FWFL and Gator checks, sized .310. Powder is IMR 4227.
I have now settled on the RCBS 30-180-SP, gator check, .310, and Smoke's clear PC. Why? Because the flyers have gone away. Used to be a ten round group could have been close to 2" and sometimes under for 9 shots and a stinkin' flyer ( a real flyer - an unexplained errant round out in the 7 or 8-ring) would open it up to 4" or more. Now I am pretty much consistent at sub 3". That rifle and load will shoot better than that, but I can't any more. I had both eyes 'fixed' last October and due to winter weather and all events shut down at the club haven't shot a match since. I'm looking forward to getting going again. The aforementioned 03A3 is capable of sub 2" groups and 100s with X count when there are no flyers. I've done it. This rifle has won many matches shooting against jacketed ammo.
I do not have any evidence to offer other than casual observation, but my handgun shooting improved with PC'd boolits. More than likely much of that is due to improved eye sight.
I am also successfully shooting PC'd cast in 300 BO, 7.62x40WT, and 300 Ham'r, all in modern sporting rifles (ARs). Gonna start working on 5.56/.223 for AR and bolt shortly.
One more observation, I like being able to put up quantities of ready to load boolits without being concerned about loob smearing and drying out, fouling seating dies. Cast/PC in the winter, load as needed, and shoot all summer. No muss and fuss with loob-sizers, making loob, etc.
Corky-- Do you apply the gas check before powder coating and then size to .310 or? What hardness alloy do you use?
GC seated and sized to .310, then PC, then one more pass thru the .310 sizer. I have found that using a Loob-sizer with gas check seating tool sets the GC best. Hardness is probably around 12-14.
I have run powder coated plain base bullets to over 2000 fps on my M1 with excellent accuracy-- and the most accurate bullet in my SMLE at any velocity just happens to be a powder coated plain based bullet. I also shoot lubed and gas checked bullets with excellent accuracy, but for some reason my SMLE likes the plain based PC bullet most. I never put gas checks on PC bullets. Its GC with lube or PC alone. I've only found one mold that did not work with PC, and it didn't do very well lubed either.
With higher vel/pressure rifle I would say gc. With handguns, I have had the gc taken off several molds, just not worth the cost & effort to gc when PC IMO.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...psbbowhyao.jpg
I just tested this yesterday. This is a accuracy load in my gun. This is a Lee 312-1552R top group of ten is GC. Bottom ten shot group is NO GC. CAREFULLY shoot off a bench with complete sand bag set and 18x scope. To remove as much human error as possible.
Im now gonna season bullets and try again.
I have also done tests with bullets cast a month ago to bullets cast with in 24 hrs of shooting.
Then tests with FF cases and brand new die formed cases.
Then neck sized to 1 fired cases.
Always interesting results.
CW
Corky,
What mold are you using for PC'd cast in the 300 BO?
BeeMan