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can I get folks that shoot the old sharps paper cartridges to chime in with their SOP on shooting these old rifles...[and new models of them as well]...thanks. curiosity has me by the curly's and ive never experienced nor been around one of these early sharps rifles to know how accurate or handy they are.
thanks for the input and explanations.:wink:...:-D
I have a IAB 1863 sharps, & just love it.In fact I just came from the range, after shooting it.
What do you need to know?
Fly
had an IAB, Armi Sport. Now a Shiloh for the last 5 yrs or so. they will all shoot or can be made to shoot. Armi sport handed my a hard time at first. had a block conversion done that fixed all the problems. If you plan to shoot it in comp. you will need to have an O-ring conversion to keep the block from seizing up after 10 shots or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigted
All of mine would shot clover leaf groups at 50 yards. Don't have a target handy but think I had 4 - 6" groups at 100yrds.
they are a blast to shoot. one of my favorites. powder charge 39 2ffg. Steve Brooks mold he custom made for me based off his own design.
For nationals and team events I use Charlie Hahn tube. for practice and regional ind. matchs I use adding machine paper.
Charlie Hahn is a good guy to talk to about these. he has a web site. or find him on the shiloh site or N-SSA site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly
thanks for the offer. I really don't know a thing about them at all such as...
1- how does the loading of the paper cartridge work
2- how much powder can you use behind the boolit
3- what size boolit and is it a true paper patch boolit
4- how many shots before having to clean for accuracy or general fouling
5- can a feller use lube cookies to help with fouling
6- can you clean from the breech and if so is there a constriction in the barrel behind or in front of the chamber area
7- is there a chamber area that is smooth or is it all rifled to the block
8- what happens to the paper cartridge when fired...does it go out the barrel or do you have to remove shreds from the breech after firing
I've got a ton of questions but will stop here as I believe that this is enough to start with.
thanks for the reply's 59sharps and fly...I said I didn't have anything but questions concerning these neat looking old style rifles.
Wow you do have a list.First I don't use paper cartridge, I use these.They are like 60 cents each & work slicker than snot.http://www.shelltube.us/HowWorks.html
Powder load depends on the different rifles, & bullets.I have been using 50 grains home made 3fffg.
My boolit .54 cal nei mold with felt wad.
How many shots,10 to 15.
I use booth, lube on boolit & wad
I clean from barrel, because my peep sights in the way
yes there is a smooth chamber
I think I got all your questions my friend.Feel free to PM me.
We all here help each other, these people are the best.
Fly
1- how does the loading of the paper cartridge work -[]push it in like any other single shot.
2- how much powder can you use behind the boolit. - I use 39 2ffg for target 65 for hunting. stay away from 3 fffg, it will erode the gas check faster.
3- what size boolit and is it a true paper patch boolit - bullet I shot in my Shiloh is .540. it will depend on your bore. my bullet is a straight wall. not a Christmas tree. not a paper patch.
4- how many shots before having to clean for accuracy or general fouling.- I clean after an event is over. can go maybe 20 rounds w/o cleaning if need be..
5- can a feller use lube cookies to help with fouling - I do not like lube against my powder. If u use cookie put a wad between it and powder. lube on bullet works for me. (35/65 beeswax olive oil)
6- can you clean from the breech and if so is there a constriction in the barrel behind or in front of the chamber area - always clean from the breach end. I find patches can catch on the forcing cone on the way back out.
7- is there a chamber area that is smooth or is it all rifled to the block. - smooth tapered at breach to barrel. the taper centers the bullet.
8- what happens to the paper cartridge when fired...does it go out the barrel or do you have to remove shreds from the breech after firing. - the paper is consumed or goes out the barrel. depending on how well they burn. I use charlies card board tubes they break apart and go out the barrel. Had a team mate complain about it was a distraction they float to the ground like a feather.
I've got a ton of questions but will stop here as I believe that this is enough to start with.- just ask away.
I told you these guy's are the best.59 Sharps been around these guns much longer than me, for sure.
But they are fun as heck.Some day I will get a Shiloh also, but Momma keeps my buying down right now.(Wink)
Fly
I assume the cryptic cliche' or insider lingo of "christmas tree" has something to do with grease groove bullet or minie or heeled bullet??
sounds like fun to me as well but... I wanna know a bit more about this new to me rifle type... any photo's of the rifles?...boolit photo's of configuration in all forms...loading and closing the breech... when I get too many questions just tell me to hush...LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by fouronesix
1- is there a clipped piece of paper that exposes the powder to the breech when the action is closed?
2- can you use regular greese groove boolits for this type action?
3- is there a problem with the spark path and the cap or is the cap hotter then a #11 cap?
4- are these 50 cal rifles capable of long range shooting as the newer '74's are?
5- are these classed the same for muzzleloader seasons usually?
6- seems like a person could get three or four shots to one of the regular muzzleloader rifles... is this so?
7- are the uberti or pedrosoli rifles capable of the same accuracy as the American made rifles are?
8- do the original sharps rifle and carbines in percussion do well and is there still parts available for them?
9- speaking of parts...what usually goes south with these rifles as far as up-keep goes and broken or damaged stuff as result of shooting?
thanks again all for the input. I've got a hankerin for one but want to understand what I think I understand before I unleash my hard earned dollars on one. im very tempted to try for an original to begin with as the history should be outstanding...just want to be sure of what exactly im getting in for.:lol:...8-)...[smilie=1:
Been wanting a Shilo '63 Sporter for a while...now you me drooling again.
Jon
I mostly seat the boolit with a piece of ram rod with a stop on it and fill the chamber with ffg. makes a stiff load but shoots well when lubed with bees wax olive oil. I push a patch through after 5 shots.
Indiana's deer regulations per my local CO allow the gun in firearms and late doe season, when loaded with a cartridge as the cartridge is between the length spefications. I roll the cartridges with news print two wraps. Some times there is a scrap of paper in the gun.
This is with a Pedersoli 54 that I really need to work with and learn, but as above is plenty good for deer to 100 yds.
Something I don't understand with my rifle?Everyone I have talked to even Charlie Hahn said to use
2ffg powder.I was not getting the groups I thought I should.At the range yesterday I only changed from
2ffg to 3fffg & my groups closed up.
Charlie Hahn said to use 39 grains of 2ffg.I must say that's a little light for hunting.So I have been using
50 grains.But going to 3fffg made all the difference in the world at getting this thing shooting tacks.
You guys have any ideas to why?
Fly
My dad always said- never look a gift horse in the mouth". My guess (purely a guess)- your particular rifle/chamber/throat/bullet/alloy/paper/land-groove design, etc. likes a quicker, more complete, obturation. Maybe better gas seal and less land stripping as the bullet first gets going.
Yea, I got this gun about a month back.I shot different bullets, 50 to 70 of powder grains there it.I started using felt wadsQuote:
Originally Posted by fouronesix
over my powder & so on.But when I change to 3fffg, I could not beleave the difference.
I have always shot it in my muzzle loaders but not in this Sharps.Oh well!
Fly
can someone help with guidance to books that are written on these rifles?
Go too the http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=8 Web site.There is a bunch of info over there
on these rifle.As you know I have a IAB, but some have helped me there.
Charlie Hahn reads & post there, also.He knows about as much as anyone I know on these rifles.
You can even call him & find out anything, for he is really a nice fellow.When I told him I just had
a IAB, he did not treat me any different then if I owned a Shiloh.
Fly
it comes from the shape of a Christmas tree. all 3 bands are a different size small to larger from the top the bottom sort of looks like a tree base in a stand. the base design was to allow the cart. to be tied to the bullet. just like you guessed it a Christmas tree. this was done to fit different bore dia. in the originals. and has just carried thru. I presently shoot a straight wall bullet w a base to fit Charlie's tube, that I had made to fit my Shiloh bore. If I can find them I will post pics of different bullets I have used, plastic loading tubes Charlie's paper tubes and block conversion similar to the one Charlie's does.Quote:
Originally Posted by fouronesix
1- is there a clipped piece of paper that exposes the powder to the breech when the action is closed?-some do it that way I do not. mine are flat and sit flush no powder loss that way. no chance of extra paper blocking flash path.
2- can you use regular greese groove boolits for this type action?[COLOR="#FF0000"]-yes [/COLOR]
3- is there a problem with the spark path and the cap or is the cap hotter then a #11 cap?- you want to use musket caps. the path is 2 90 deg turns and iis about 1 -2 " long
4- are these 50 cal rifles capable of long range shooting as the newer '74's are? cant answer that don't shot more than 100 yrds
5- are these classed the same for muzzleloader seasons usually? no these are breach loaders. even though I have heard they can if needed be loaded from the front.
6- seems like a person could get three or four shots to one of the regular muzzleloader rifles... is this so?- yes that is about right.
7- are the uberti or pedrosoli rifles capable of the same accuracy as the American made rifles are?- ped and Shiloh are about the same also fit and finish are close to equal.
8- do the original sharps rifle and carbines in percussion do well and is there still parts available for them? yes for the money if you can find one get it if not ped and Shiloh are top of the line. S & s Sell original parts. also they will fit a Shiloh and vise versa I am told.
9- speaking of parts...what usually goes south with these rifles as far as up-keep goes and broken or damaged stuff as result of shooting?- the nipple is first to go. I change mine as soon as the group starts to open up. or every april which ever comes first. that will depend on how much you shoot, I do over 500 rounds a year. I shot 75 rounds a week ago. plus 20 2 weeks before in practice do that every 2 weeks or so. gas check will be the second thing to wear out.
w an original you may need to have the barrel sleeved if worn out.
'59' thanks so much for the detailed answers. im getting a pretty good picture of the mechanics and the how . thanks fella's and together with the Shiloh site ... especially the '63' sharps area...I am getting a fairly rounded info pack.