Paper patch tearing when sizing

I'm trying to get into paper patching for my muzzleloader. So far I haven't had much luck getting the bullets sized back down to .501 after patching.

I have tried tracing paper, printer paper and notebook paper. The bullets when patched measure around .503 to.505". I am trying to patch slick bullets sent to me by a member on here. They measure .494 before patching. The paper gets caught on the bottom of the ogive every time.

I have read many threads about shooters patching the lee 500 s&w bullet which is much larger diameter and running it back through a .501 die. So I know it's doable.

Anyone have suggestions on how to keep this from happening.

I would check the radious on the sizing die to be sure its smooth and has the proper lead into the die. A slight tapered lead into the die may help it dosnt take a lot here a 2*-5* angle to .510 or so and polished bright and smooth will allow the paper to enter and slide into the sizing portion easier. Wrapped tight with angled ends it should size okay. A paper thickness of .0018 thousandth ( seth cole 8lb is very close to this) will give a finished bullet very close to the .501 you want. How are you wrapping wet or dry ? An lube on the patches? A light coat of JOJoba oil on the dry patches may help also. I lube my PP with it a drop on finger and thumb of oil and then wipe 3-5 bullets ( depending on caliber) then wipe excess off with a cleaning patch. You just need a very light coat not the "wet" look but just a sheen showing they have been done. Are you wrapping with a tail or tailless the twisted tail may be contributing to the patches failing. It provides an uneven surface supporting the bullet. If you can do it try sizing a few bullets down to .491-.492 before wrapping then patch and see what happens. I have found it better to use the bullet that gives the desired size with out sizing the patch down.

I've tried dry and wet wrapping with several different papers. Tried using different case lubes and sizing wax when sizing.

What sizer are you using?

Lee push thru

Try running them thru base first as the fold over may allow them to enter easier.

Seth Cole tracing paper should will add about .005 -.006. Doing the math your .494 bullets will patch to about .499-.500 Dunno how they will fit your bore but maybe it's worth a shot. Or you could try sizing them before you patch them. I think lee will cut a custom sizer.


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Anyone have a link to the specific tracing paper your talking about? Just wanna be sure I'm looking at the right thing.

Can you show pics of your wrapped bulllet?
I found that wrapping further up on the ogive actually helped. the wet patch shrink and curved better around the ogive. A shorter patch almost acts like a cartridge case mouth that headspaced on the mouth. It smacks into the sizing Die transition and wants to tear. Think of the wrap being higher more like a roll crimp of tha patch.
I guess thinking of a roll crimp vs a taper crimp speed loaded into a revolver.

https://www.draftingsuppliesdew.com/...ng-paper-rolls


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I get my paper from Buffalo Arms. A little more expensive but it works very well. I wrap dry and wrap up past the ogive as well. When putting it into the die I sometimes have to twist the bullet a little to get the paper in the die. I also use bullets from BACO, the .492 PP bullets. Sizing die is .501

Make sure the size die is clean, as in squeaky clean. They come from the box with a bit of grease in them. Clean with solvents and alcohol or similar. I also found that after about 50rds I will clean again with an alcohol patch to get the paper residue out.

First thing is if you have to size the bullet to get it to fit your rifle, size the slick before you wrap it.

or even better, get a new mould.
keep safe,
bruce.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BRUCE MOULDS

or even better, get a new mould.
keep safe,
bruce.

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This is the best solution to your problem.

But if you feel reducing the diameter is the only option for you just changing the diameter three thousands changes the profile of the bullet as well the performance. You shorten the ogive and lengthen the shank as well the total length of the bullet.
Like mentioned above reduce the bullet before patching it and get a good die that has a long tapered inlet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by glockky

I'm trying to get into paper patching for my muzzleloader. So far I haven't had much luck getting the bullets sized back down to .501 after patching.

I have tried tracing paper, printer paper and notebook paper. The bullets when patched measure around .503 to.505". I am trying to patch slick bullets sent to me by a member on here. They measure .494 before patching. The paper gets caught on the bottom of the ogive every time.

I have read many threads about shooters patching the lee 500 s&w bullet which is much larger diameter and running it back through a .501 die. So I know it's doable.

Anyone have suggestions on how to keep this from happening.

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I am the one that started the sizing with the Lee 500 S&W bullet.
There are a couple things I would look at.

First, Hardness of the bullet is NUMBER 1. If the lead is much harder than 5 to 6 BHN or .035 to .035 on a Cabine Tree tester the paper is most likely going to strip.

Second,like someone said the paper might be not far enough up the Ogive.

If you don't have a hardness tester and you wanted to test if it is truly the hardness of the lead that is causing the issue do this. Put the naked bullets in the oven at 400 degrees for 30 minutes. This will soften them back up. Let them cool and try it again. If that works then it is the hardness that is causing them to strip.

A young man sent some to me to patch and size. I asked how hard they were and he didn't know. I wrapped them and sized one. I tested for hardness and it was 9 BHN. I have backed this up many times and with different bullets. I am betting yours are hard.

https://i.imgur.com/X7nQM6q.jpg

All true. Sizing after wrapping works great with the patch extending far enough forwards and the metal not being too hard. Sizing .458 molds to .457 after patching is A-OK.
250 grain .454 diameter Keith SWC's work good too.
Attachment 204460
I've found that sizing after wrapping provides a thinner patch at loading. Depending upon the rifling geometry this can be a beneficial condition for muzzleloading as the boolit that fits your bore has less expansion required of it to fill the grooves. The other obvious benefit is that it lets you work with a variety of molds with leeway in the diameter you must start with.

i have found when sizing patched bullets it extremely helpful to lube the patched bullet before attempting to size i typically wipe the bullet with lanolin or my bp lube which is lanolin bees wax and carnuba pretty similar to spg and softer is better when it comes to the alloy for paper patching i typically use pure lead or a tin only alloy any amount of antimony will typically make the bullets harder that you want especially for a bp aplication unless you are going for a zero expansion hard cast for max penetration

What patched diameter are you looking for?
How heavy a boolit will your rifle take?
I ask because I have a PP mold that drops a boolit at .490" and a patched boolit of .498" and a finished weight of 505-508grs
Can send you some if you want to try them but I don't want to sell the mold.

I need a finished bullet around .500 or .501.

I polished the sizer die and got some better results. I'm gonna try a different bullet too.

My Lyman GPH has a bore of .502. I use the BACO .492 450 gn PP bullets. I use the BACO onion skin paper. Two wraps. Lee .501 sizing die just kinda 'sets' the paper on the bullet. Wrap the bullets dry. No lube on bullet or paper. Wrap so a bit of paper extends beyond the start of the ogive. This section of paper is worked into the sizing die, then pushed through.

I did have to really clean the sizing die well. I used some denim wrapped around a dowel and turned with a drill. Alcohol first, then dry.

I have also been able to paper patch Hornady Great Plains bullets. Run them through the .501 sizing die. Clean off the lube and clean the die. Patch and run through the sizing die. I do have some failures this way, but, it does work. Just like Idahoron's work with the S&W pistol bullet. Lead must be soft for this to work. Also wrap these so the paper extends just a little beyond to top band of the bullet.