Swaging 9mm brass to make 357 full jacket 158-160/gr tc nose bullets 1000-piece lot

SWAGING 9MM BRASS TO MAKE 357 FULL JACKET 158-160/GR TC NOSE BULLETS, 1000-PIECE TEST LOT

Posting this information to show those who never swaged bullets before and those who have what can be made. My goal was to do a 1000-piece lot to give me an actual idea of how much time it would take. Making any other calibers would be very similar because most of the operations are the same. I also ran the statistical data to see what the overall results showed.
First of all, this was done on an automated hydraulic press. I couldn’t imagine doing this on a manual swage press due to the thousands of cycles needed to complete a 1000-piece lot.
All the dies I use are from Dave Corbin and they are the H-Type dies, 1-1/2” in diameter vs the standard 7/8” diameter dies sold. I don’t ever see breaking one from over pressure.

The pictures below will show the lead billet turned into lead wire. From the 0.310” diameter wire 28” long, sixty 96/gr cores could be cut on the homemade core cutter I built. If you could see the red speck in front of the cores that's what 5/grains of lead would represent.

The second picture shows a 9/mm case induction heated. The case would then be drawn into the 357 jacket 0.800” long. Next the core would be inserted and fully seated. With my press it took 1200/psi which equals over 9500 pounds of pressure. Using any lower pressure would not fully seat some of the cores. Usually for the larger calibers it takes about half this pressure, probably because of the larger diameter punches. For this operation alone doing it on a manual press would take quite a while to do 1000 pieces besides the effort and time to do so.

The third picture just shows the finished 1000-piece lot. The total cost for 1000 bullets $35, that’s why I would make my own and have an unlimited supply considering buying in today’s market. Just making these bullets it would only take around three to four thousand rounds to pay for the dies. I also use the die set to make 9/mm and 357/sig bullets using standard copper jackets. Need to run them through a star sizing die which adds around one hour. I like statistics and ran a 100-piece random test to see how close the bullet weight was held. For shooting 357 Magnum I don’t think a plus or minus of two grains or a little more would make very much difference in accuracy. These will vary more due to two reasons. The cores were just cut and not swaged to within several tenths of a grain. The 9/mm cases were a mixed lot and they could easily deviate plus or minus five grains. The test was to see what the actual results were and how long it would take. Swaging the cores would add three hours to the total time. Sorting thousands of cases wasn’t even a consideration. If I were making match grade rifle bullets all the operations would be done precisely and copper jackets would be used which all weigh the same. For what little rifle I do shoot it’s hard to justify a $1500 die set and the jackets are not cheap. BT dies have jumped in price to over $1200 for a three-die set. All my Corbin H-dies were around $850 for a three-die set or less if I didn’t need the swage core die, usually could use one from another set if the calibers are close.

Steps and time to complete the operations for a 1000-piece lot. This is all based on the press cycle time of 6.0/sec and 4.0/sec to load and unload the next round. Very repetitious. Usually, I would work for two hours straight at one time, no rush.

Step 1, swage the lead billets into 17 lengths 28” long and cut into 1020 96/gr. cores on a handmade core cutter, pretty accurate to within one grain time ½-hour
Step 2, Induction heat and draw 9/mm cases into 357 jackets. Because I built a fully automated induction annealer the two operations can be done at the same time which overall will save three hours if the cases were done separately. Combined time for doing both, time 3.0-hours
Step 3, Fully seat the lead cores, time 3.0-hours
Step 4, Point form the bullet, time 3.0-hours
Step 5, Last step add cannelure, power Corbin cannelure tool, time ½-hour

Total time to complete the 1000-piece lot ten hours for a total cost of $35 vs several hundred dollars for factory bullets.
In total you then have five thousand cycles to do most calibers. So, the question is if you had a choice would you do them manually and how long would it take? How would the consistency be? Or using a hydraulic press, bullet number one is the same as bullet number 1000 with no real effort involved. Just gets tedious the longer you stay with it so it needs to be spread out for three to four days, or more.



The statistical data is as follows. Overall, not to bad using cut cores and mixed cases. I’ve made 357 bullets with swaged cores and copper jackets and they are all within several tenths of a grain, as good or better looking than factory bullets. The initial weight goal was 158-160-grains. Some fliers but overall due to the mixed cases, the results were actually better than expected.

FUNCTION GRAINS FUNCTION GRAINS
AVERAGE BULLET WEIGHT 157.63 AVERAGE BULLET WEIGHT 157.63
LOW BULLET WEIGHT 153.90 LOW BULLET WEIGHT VALUE FROM AVERAGE VALUE -3.73
MEDIUM BULLET WEIGHT 157.60 MEDIUM BULLET WEIGHT VALUE FROM AVERAGE VALUE -0.03
HIGH BULLET WEIGHT 160.70 HIGH BULLET WEIGHT VALUE FROM AVERAGE VALUE 3.07
MAXIMUM WEIGHT DIFFERENCE 6.80 STANDARD DEVIATION 1.49

I put a lot of information out there for anyone to review or ask questions. It took about five years to get to this point after first building the hydraulic press. Second integrated an induction annealer into my design to make a fully automated annealer. It will process 9/mm, 40/S&W and 45/ACP cases at a rate of around 1000 per 3.0 hours, again very consistent.
Hope this helps for anyone wanting to start getting into swaging. At a younger age it will pay for itself in several years if done right. Factory components will always be going up or not even being obtainable like right now. This is going to go on for several more years and doubt if prices will come down to 2018 prices. You at least need powder and primers to reload and some of the pricing is just not realistic right now to reload unless you have a good supply, fortunately I do for many years into the future.
Good luck and hope to hear some questions and positive feedback only. This is meant to help individuals of what is actually involved in swaging a particular bullet using drawn cases for jackets.
Thank You
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Very nice write up ! Just think of the ideas you have created in others heads now ! Great that your sharing so others can learn . As ammo prices continue to climb and availability continues to be spotty at best in most local shops this teaches others there are options out there that aren't beyond reach and that you can make a quality shooting bullet that will shoot just as well at home especially for target practice at lot lower price . Once the equipment is acquired it lasts a lifetime if taken care of . Becoming too dependent on anything is a bad idea -now-a-days .
I have a chp-1 corbin hydropress I purchased a few years ago and use it for my shooting supply . I am slowly adding dies to be able to make other calibers. I would love to see some pics of the hydraulic press you designed out of pure interest in what can be done and I'm sure others here would like to as well , if you wouldn't care to show it off ?
Any info about how you made it might spur several others to give it a try . Dave Corbin makes a fine unit but they are expensive in 2021 . Richard Corbin also made several Hydro units but not sure he could be talked into it today but they are out there on the used markets at times though rare as most tend to keep these a lifetime. I believe he made the first hydro chp-1 around 1986 for the market . Also one can do alot with a manual press but like stated it requires some effort .even making jackets with a manual press will work but much easier with the hydrualic unit plus it will close the small hole left from forming . Alot of interesting reading in bits and pieces for those who search the net for info and this site has many good posts to learn from . Also Dave corbin published many books over the years showing off what is possible with his equipment that he a Richard produced . With only a few other die makers out there and a rare few who have made their own with success as proof on these pages once in awhile . I for one , always like seeing the equipment others have come up with as most has been just improvements over the original idea as there is only so many ways to do something .

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Originally Posted by baddoglowder

Very nice write up ! Just think of the ideas you have created in others heads now !.

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First thought when I saw the thread title... I do have that 357 Herrett contender barrel coming...

Great write up! Very informative and I appreciate you taking the time to do it as I have been pondering the swagging thing for years now but haven't made the jump.

If a person was critical on weight control, it might be easier to just weight sort upon completion and store in matched weight batches. I would not be a proficient enough handgun shooter to make the effort worth it though.

a 380 does not need to be sized down as far, and a 223 works too when cut to size.

Picture of auto induction annealing please.

Regarding the induction annealer I'm using the Annie which I integrated into my design to fully automate loading and unloading the case. Use the Dillon bullet feeder to load cases, three linear actuators to load, position and eject the case. The unit is water cooled which can do 1000 cases in three hours without overheating. The entire unit is controlled using an Allen Bradley Micrologix PLC. This took months to build and figure it all out. There is a lot going on to automate any process. I may post pictures one day but it will be when I probably go to sell. Unless your into programming and mechanical automation and machining this project would be hard to duplicate. The price to build would not be considered by most individuals.

Regarding the hydraulic press I built about seven years ago it took months to machine, build the panel, do the drawings in auto cad and program using the same type of PLC. I decided to make it a four post just to distribute the forces equally. The press will actually do more than Dave's press for $10/K. Using a PLC for control you have a lot of options for functions and monitoring faults. Using a more basic display right now and just purchased a 6" touch panel, overkill, which will give me all the information needed on multiple screens which can be set up. Pictures may be possible but not at this time.

Thank you for your interest. If someone wanted specifics they can send a PM.

I would like to hear from those using a manual setup making the same caliber.
How long does it take you to do 100, 500 and 1000 rounds with all the steps listed above.
How consistent does the finished bullet look. Probably questions everyone would like to compare.

Currently selling a hydraulic unit here but would have to live near the Cleveland, Ohio area.
Just about giving it away. The components are top of the line.
If you wanted to get into hydraulics this is the basic setup to start with for the cost.

In my spare time decided to do a 1000 piece lot of 45/ACP around 210/gr TC bullets using 40/S&W cases for jackets.
These get easier to make the larger the bullet, plus less operations.
These come out very consistent.
CUT THE CORES
ANNEAL CASES
FLARE THE CASES
SEAT CORE
FINISH WITH NOSE POINT
ADD CANNELURE
LOAD AND THEN SHOOT

Did you get your drawing die from Dave or did you make it? I have considered making .357 bullets but have not found a suitable case for jackets. The only one that seems to fit the bill without drawing is the .32 auto, which you do not find in plentiful supplies laying on the range.

Everything I use is from Dave Corbin.
There are different styles and I could use either one.
JRD-1 consists of the punch which uses an adapter to fit my press 1-12 thread.
The JRD-1 punch itself I think has 5/8" fine threads that probably fits one of his press designs.

JRD-2 consists of the punch inserted directly in the adapter with 1-12 threads.
The punch end is tapered with a centering machined end to locate and center on the primer hole.

I use all mixed 9/mm brass and never had a problem.
Done about 5000 rounds to date ready to make finished bullets shown above.
Sometimes you may get a case that tears out but that could happen with any case, for $0.03 each no problem.

Slowly working on the 45/ACP lot. Should have finished pictures soon.

Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by Sasquatch-1

Did you get your drawing die from Dave or did you make it? I have considered making .357 bullets but have not found a suitable case for jackets. The only one that seems to fit the bill without drawing is the .32 auto, which you do not find in plentiful supplies laying on the range.

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I've made a lot of .357" diameter bullets using .380 acp brass for jackets. They work well, and are plentiful (at least in my neck of the woods).

Hope this helps.

Fred

KAYDADOG KAYDADOG, Thanks for the info. Seeing as how I would still have to buy the dies for the actual swaging process and I don't have anything that NEEDS jacket in that caliber, I think I am going to pass. The whole thing with .357 jackets was just a passing whim.

You can use 223 cases to make bullets for .358 rifles, 35 Rem, 358 Win. 350Rem, 35 whelen. I use very few jacketed bullets for pistols as cast boolits work fine for me.

That's awesome. I've got a Corbin hydro press and mega mite and have been thinking about jumping to pistol projectiles with Corbin too. I do rifle and shotgun already.

Nice write-up, nice to know you can use 9mm casings for 357 jackets. If you got 0.800" long just by sizing down to .355 or so, I am thinking that sizing even farther down to .307 would stretch another 70-80 thou which should be enough for a light 110 - 125gr .308 bullet which would be more desirable for me. Now if only I could get some general idea on how to build a hydraulic press and I am talking about that operates with a button and not a manual lever.

...maybe am me, but I can'see the att.ments...

I have been doing this for years and years. I did not buy anything. I used what I already had on hand. 380-9mm=357 or light 358. 40 short and wimpy =44 or 444. 45acp swaged to 457-8 to be used in 45-70 and others like 458 socom. Many others once you get into cutting up rifle cases. I run lead for pistol so swaging is saved for rifle or hotter loads. Just like rbuck said.

Very nice write up though. Good job. Sure is fun isn’t it.

For those interested, I believe these are some the original pictures posted making 357 or 357/sig swaged bullets.
These were made using 9/mm drawn cases for jackets.
The full length of the case is used, no trimming required which is what I like to see.
Using the 9/mm case for jackets make a very good-looking truncated Cone fully jacketed bullet.
45/ACP bullets come out almost identical using 40/S&W cases for jackets, also posted awhile back.

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