Best option for Browning 1885 High Wall?

Hi, guys...I have a Browning 1885 High Wall chambered in .45/70 that I just love. I purchased this thing new in 1995 and it's still pristine. It has some of the most glorious wood I've ever seen on a factory gun. It has the factory buckhorn sights, which do well up to 100 yards with my handloads (405gr jacketed FP bullets) but I'd like to do a bit more long range gong ringing with it. I don't want to scope it and would love a nice peep or vernier sight, but the Browning version of this rifle has no tang on the rear stock and NO WAY am I drilling and inletting that gorgeous wood! Any suggestions? I would like to keep the slim profile of the rifle as well, so would prefer to stay away from big, blocky receiver mounted peep sights as well.

The no tang makes it much harder. A mount could be made to bolt in and straddle the hammer overhanging the stock wrist for a traditional vernier sight. but would be alot of work and expensive to have made. Depending on if and where its scope blocks holes are a rail might be made to use a receiver sight for an AR match rifle ( not anywhere near traditional and probably not enough elevation). I know in Canada they make a bridge type mount for number 1s to mount a tang sight.

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Originally Posted by country gent

The no tang makes it much harder. A mount could be made to bolt in and straddle the hammer overhanging the stock wrist for a traditional vernier sight. but would be alot of work and expensive to have made. Depending on if and where its scope blocks holes are a rail might be made to use a receiver sight for an AR match rifle ( not anywhere near traditional and probably not enough elevation). I know in Canada they make a bridge type mount for number 1s to mount a tang sight.

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Yes, pretty much resigned to the fact that without a tang, my options are limited. I was hoping there might be some obsure aftermarket sight designed just for this rifle, but haven't found one yet. There are peep-type blocks that mount to the top/side of the receiver in the scope mount holes, but they are sort of ugly to my eyes with lots of sharp angles to snag on a gun case. One of the attractions of this gun is the slim, minimalist profile and I hate to mess it up.

I don't know, since it has a dovetail mounted
buckhorn, could you replace it with a ladder
style sight?

I've been thinking about putting a Skinner
ladder sight on my 1895 CB for the
same reason you state.

Just knuckle under and put the Williams Foolproof on your rifle- it is the cheapest and fastest way to get a longer sight radius and still leave you with a portable rifle.
To make it more compact use the hunter version with the flush adjustment screws. I own both versions but I do not mind the bulk so I use the target knob version. The Williams sight is quick and easy to mount and is easily removed if you don't like it and find something better. You will need a taller front sight with the Williams sight. It will get you shooting while you work on the magic required to mount a tang sight with no tang.

The only real solutions are:
1. Get another butt stock to mount your tang sight on.
2. Buy another Browning - the 1885 Traditional Hunter. It is the lighter rifle with a tang
3. Want a heavy version? - Buy the Browning BPCR it has a tang and came from the factory with a nice tang sight.

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Originally Posted by Captain*Kirk

Yes, pretty much resigned to the fact that without a tang, my options are limited. I was hoping there might be some obsure aftermarket sight designed just for this rifle, but haven't found one yet. There are peep-type blocks that mount to the top/side of the receiver in the scope mount holes, but they are sort of ugly to my eyes with lots of sharp angles to snag on a gun case. One of the attractions of this gun is the slim, minimalist profile and I hate to mess it up.

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Just knuckle under and put the Williams Foolproof on your rifle- it is the cheapest and fastest way to get a longer sight radius and still leave you with a portable rifle.

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How would putting a Williams Fool Proof sight on his gun make it a long range shooter? He's looking for something with enough adjustment to shoot out to several hundred yards.

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Originally Posted by Captain*Kirk

Hi, guys...I have a Browning 1885 High Wall chambered in .45/70 that I just love.

the Browning version of this rifle has no tang on the rear stock

Any suggestions ?

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Marble's makes their tang sight in a version specifically for tangless Browning 1885's - #009813

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1005871161


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Hey pietro, I used the link. I don't have this rifle but was just interested what Marble's came up with to mount a tang sight on this rifle.
I looked at the picture and read the text. It does not say or show how to attach the tang base to the tangless rifle. Does it require the wrist wood to be drilled and taped?

Any idea?

I had a William's foolproof on an 1885 in 45/70 I had years ago never had a problem with the sight snagging on anything. Did have to replace the front sight with one that was higher to work the rear sight

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Originally Posted by Chill Wills

Hey pietro, I used the link. I don't was just interested what Marble's came up with to mount a tang sight on this rifle.

I looked at the picture and read the text.

It does not say or show how to attach the tang base to the tangless rifle.

Does it require the wrist wood to be drilled and taped?

Any idea?

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IDK, so any interested party ought to first contact Marble's Customer Service with their question(s) B 4 buying the sight.

http://www.marblearms.com/contact.html




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I drilled the stock and put a brass insert in. It's under the sight base.

Reread his constraints - they contain mutually exclusive probabilities
He did not want to modify his rifle therefore he has NO other choice but to accept the compromise of the Williams or some similar sight.
In addition the .45-70 is not much of a long range shooter unless you use heavier meaning 500 grain bullets. His rifle is a bit on the light side to launch those and still call it fun. Even the 500 grainers can drift about 1" in a 4 mph breeze (approx. the speed of a brisk walk) at 100 yards.

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Originally Posted by NSB

How would putting a Williams Fool Proof sight on his gun make it a long range shooter? He's looking for something with enough adjustment to shoot out to several hundred yards.

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Captain*Kirk I have the same problem with a B78 I bought. I bought it with the ideal of shooting a little longer range with it but was not knowledgeable enough about the missing tang to install a tang sight on without mounting into the wood. Like you I don't want to mess the stock up to install a tang sight. I still have not found a solution for my rifle yet but keep looking. Browning made a nice looking rifle but failed miserably by not designing the action without a tang. Here's a link to my post http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...1-How-did-I-do If you look at post #12 Reverend Al offeren a sight solution but I have not found the sight he shows for any price. Good luck on your search. I've subscribed to your post so if you find a solution please post your findings. Thanks

wcp

Thanks for the replies, all!
The Marble sight looks like it might be what I'm looking for, but in the instructions PDF there is a mention of centerpunch, drilling and tapping. I don't wish to do any permanent mods to this rifle. I posed the question to MidwayUSA of how it mounts; I will update this thread if and when I get an answer...the PDF covered a lot of different rifles besides the 1885.
The problem with the Williams (unless I'm wrong) is that the gun would not be a quick-adjust affair from zero at 100 to zero at, say, 200 or more. It would also mean carrying a screwdriver around with me, which sounds like a major PITA, along with a sight setting card rather than committing to memory something like "3 clicks per 100 yards". If I'm mistaken about the Williams in this capacity, feel free to correct me. I've never owned or used one. With my aging eyes, a receiver mounted peep does have it's appeal over the standard buckhorn...
Since I already have a Pedersoli Sharps with a vernier tang in .45/70, leaving this High Wall as a solid 100 yard rifle would not be the end of the world. I just like it so much that the option of versatility would be enticing.
Again, thanks for all the input so far.

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Originally Posted by Captain*Kirk

Thanks for the replies, all!
The Marble sight looks like it might be what I'm looking for, but in the instructions PDF there is a mention of centerpunch, drilling and tapping. I don't wish to do any permanent mods to this rifle. I posed the question to MidwayUSA of how it mounts; I will update this thread if and when I get an answer...the PDF covered a lot of different rifles besides the 1885.

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I think the Marble sight is a mount on the wood part of the stock because their sight says you need screw #995026 and if you search that on Midway it shows wood type screws. Here is the link to the info at Marble showing item numbers. http://www.marblearms.com/universal-rear-sights.html I think we a without help for a long range sight option on our tangless Brownings.

wcp

Perhaps the Williams sight with the adjustment knobs rather than the simple screws would enable you to develop sight settings that would be repeatable with only a little more care in moving with the rifle in hand. I have the screw adjustable one on my 1885 .45-70 since where I hunt here in GA 100 yards is a long shot in most cases, and if longer than that I will just hold a bit higher in the kill zone based on my experience with the round, usually the Lyman 330 grain HP Gould boolit. GF

You got me thinking, that can be dangerous for me. Anyway I have a H&R Buffalo Classic with a williams sight on it, so I removed it to see if it would fit the B78. The back screw of the sight fit the back screw hole on the receiver. I could drill another hole for the front mount screw no problem, just experimenting at this point. I took pictures to show what I found out. The first picture is the sight mounted with one screw, its almost flush on the left side of the receiver and in the lowest position. The rear of the sight hangs over the breech by .875". The second picture shows the left side profile. The third picture shows the breech open and no interference from the sight for loading. The fourth picture shows fired case in the ejected position. The last 2 pictures show the adjustable part from a different sight that has target knobs. The front sight will have to be changed and I will put a Lyman 17 on the gun once I have the williams peep for the Browning. At least I will be able to get more range than with the current sights. Hope this helps.

wcpAttachment 254525 Attachment 254526 Attachment 254527 Attachment 254528 Attachment 254529 Attachment 254530

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Originally Posted by Gray Fox

Perhaps the Williams sight with the adjustment knobs rather than the simple screws would enable you to develop sight settings that would be repeatable with only a little more care in moving with the rifle in hand. I have the screw adjustable one on my 1885 .45-70 since where I hunt here in GA 100 yards is a long shot in most cases, and if longer than that I will just hold a bit higher in the kill zone based on my experience with the round, usually the Lyman 330 grain HP Gould boolit. GF

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GF, I did not see a target sight listed for the BHW rifle. The only Williams sight I saw was the FP1885...BACO was out of stock. There are a few ladder dovetail sights that *might* work...marginally...but the ladder sight on my Winchester '66 is a miserable excuse for a sight and pretty much useless unless retracted and I don't want to go down that road again.

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Originally Posted by wcp4570

Hope this helps.

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It does. I think the FP1885 will mount to the top of our receivers with no additional drilling and tapping using the scope base mount screw holes...but I will find out. Thanks for the many pix...they do show it can be done!
EDIT: Also, the product info for the FP1885 describes the adjustments as "clicks". This would make trajectory adjustments a repeatable affair (E.G. zero@100, 200 = 3 'clicks'). I could live with that if I had to.

Both my sight pieces have clicks and markings for elevation and windage. I searched Midway USA for the FP1885 and it shows discontinued. I have never seen that before I guess because it is discontinued. May need to contact Williams. thanks

wcp

I just got a reply back from Marble support about the Marble tang sight reference in post #7 and it is a stock mounted sight.

Troy Bernson <tbernson@marblearms.com>
2:19 PM (1 hour ago)
to me

Yes, the sight is to be mounted on the stock. No, we do not have any type of receiver type peep sight.

Troy Bernson

Customer Service

tbernson@marblearms.com



Marble's Gun Sights

420 Industrail park

Gladstone, MI. 49837

906-428-3710

Looks like the Williams would work for long range if a custom sight arm with longer staff was made for it.

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Originally Posted by wcp4570

Both my sight pieces have clicks and markings for elevation and windage. I searched Midway USA for the FP1885 and it shows discontinued. I have never seen that before I guess because it is discontinued. May need to contact Williams. thanks

wcp

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I saw it on the Buffalo Arms site but it was marked "out of stock"

Rather than the marbles sight what about the mva rough rider sight it's a barrel mounted peep that's made to mount up against the front of the action.

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Originally Posted by 1Hawkeye

Rather than the marbles sight what about the mva rough rider sight it's a barrel mounted peep that's made to mount up against the front of the action.

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I have a MVA Rough and Ready barrel sight. MVA makes high quality products. The Rough and Ready sight is an exact reproduction of the original Remington.
I don't recommend it. I wish I did not install it on my Remington rolling block hunting rifle. The sight sounds good but in use it has problems. The fixed rear notch is exceeding small to the point of not being seen at all. Once installed on the barrel, the notch elevation is fixed with no provision for elevation.
The ladder peep disk does adjust up and down but no marking on the staff to relocate settings if it were to be moved or bumped. The disk (peep) just slides up and down with no reference to where it is. There is no windage adjustment on the rear. Other than drifting the front sight left and right, you better hope your rifle shoots center with the center mounting of the rear barrel sight just like most basic rear sights.

This is not a scathing review on MVA but rather information on MVA's very accurate reproduction of what early Remington Rough and Ready sights really were made like. For those looking for a historically correct sight - MVA provides it.

It may be just right for you, but make sure you know what you are getting.

BTW- I am a big fan of MVA and their products and CS are top notch.

One plus to fitting a second stock is you will have some "leeway" in the eye relief when mounting it up. Also a second block fitted back towards the butt late like the early creed moor rifle would allow it to be used from the back position. A plain walnut replacement butt stock from one of the makers wouldn't be a lot and would give more options. when and if the time comes the original could be quickly re installed. Mounting on in the wood may give some small changes due to moisture changes in the stock.

I put Malcolm 6X on my 2 1885 Winchesters with the Malcolm mounts they fit the holes provided in the receiver and the front in the rear sight dovetail. I swap between the 405 Winchester and 375 H&H. Both are Traditional hunters. Both have thangs.

Bill

For those looking for the FP 1885 Williams sight. I think they were discontinued 8 or 10 years ago.

However they show up cheap on ebay from time to time. So far I have bought 3 on ebay and passed on several others.

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Originally Posted by EDG

For those looking for the FP 1885 Williams sight. I think they were discontinued 8 or 10 years ago.

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Not surprising, and kinda makes sense as the Browning version of this gun has been out of production for some time. I will watch eBay to see if one becomes available, otherwise...back to Square One!

Hey Captain I found a Browning with a FP1885 sight installed on gun broker. Instead of saving pictures and reposting them, here's the link so you can see exactly how that sight looks on the rifle. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/852478404

wcp

Thanks...I could live with that. I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for one.

There is another complication if you are planning to shoot in sanctioned competition. Click adjustable sights are prohibited by the BPCR rules.

"Rear sights will be of vernier or ladder type, typical of the era, either open or peep, mounted on the tang or barrel. No modern style receiver, glass, or tube sight permitted. Front sights must be typical of the era, and may be shaded. No modern or olympic-type sights permitted."

Basic Rules for BPCR

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Originally Posted by one-eyed fat man

There is another complication if you are planning to shoot in sanctioned competition.

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No such plans. I shoot for the smile factor...:bigsmyl2:

My big brother opted for a slender low power Leupold.
Good choice for him as he needed the longer range optics with his MOA 500 grain swaged soft lead paper patched spitzer anti-aircraft looking deer and hog loads.

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Originally Posted by Captain*Kirk

No such plans. I shoot for the smile factor...:bigsmyl2:

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Depends on what you consider long range. You will be limited by the amount of elevation adjustment you can get. A thousand yards will need about 170 to 190 minutes of angle, depending on the bullet. That may be more than a receiver sight can do.

Attachment 254886

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Originally Posted by one-eyed fat man

Depends on what you consider long range. You will be limited by the amount of elevation adjustment you can get. A thousand yards will need about 170 to 190 minutes of angle, depending on the bullet. That may be more than a receiver sight can do.

Attachment 254886

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4-500 yards would be fine, actually. In fact, my local rifle range is limited to 200 yards for paper targets and I'm searching for a longer range with gongs anyway. For those super-long shots I have a Pedersoli Sharps with a vernier tang sight. Actually, the High Wall does very well at 100 yards with the factory buckhorn sights, it's my eyes that won't cooperate any more, LOL! That rear buckhorn gets real fuzzy out past 100 and a peep close to my eye would be much more user-friendly, I'm thinking.