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Those hardwood vintage / antique loading kits appear to have inspired a new micro-printed kit, that blends them and Lee style kits' features in newer material by newer tech. It looks like a small, light, and handy kit.
"Mobile 12 Gauge Reloading Kit Only From The Reloaders Network"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbhpeGzR_v8
Not bad … afraid the plastic resizing ring won’t last too long, especially for high brass hulls
OK, but I'm more impressed with the crimp he gets from the kit. Mine usually look off the mark by a little.
I have never understood why people want something like this. You get a better shell, more versatility, and more rounds per hour with a cheap used MEC single stage press. I have not bought one in a while but I used to see them for $50-70.
I know...bugging out. A concept that will get a lot of folks killed. But if bugging out is your thing, the last thing you want is weight and volume; and 12 ga shells (or components) are the worst option IMO.
For me the toss up would be to take a shotgun or a carbine and revolver chambered for the same caliber "IF I WAS FORCED TO BUG OUT. And likely I'd be doing the carbine/handgun thing. Not a bad looking reloader thingy for someone who shoots 5 or 6 boxes a year for 59.99 but I'd want a machine shop to make the support tube out of aluminum along with the resizing ring at the least.
I know, right! "Oh ****, time to bug out!!! Lemme just grab my big plastic reloading kit, these bags of loose shot, a can of powder, some primers, a couple bags of wads, and my 235lb bug out bag and I'll meet you at the the old beater BOV that I haven't changed the oil in or done any maintenance to in 5 years. We'll be randomly roaming the mountains looking for a place to camp by dark!"Quote:
Originally Posted by dverna
I don't get it...I think for most people, it's just a weird fantasy. They think they'll be warlord of the forest ruling over a harem with their overflowing bags of junk, but most of them would probably die of a heart attack from the "bugging" part before they even got to the "out".
Now that being said, I own something substantially similar to this for 410, but I shoot like 20 of those a year and it's cheaper to bang them out on that goofy kit than to invest in a MEC or whatever...
The whole purpose of the original Lee Loader was to get people into reloading. Then if they wanted to continue they would buy more sophisticated tools and machines.
My first Loading kit was a Lee Loader I bought in 1971 to load for my Sako Forrester .243 Still have the kit, don't have the gun. Next one I bought was a .44 for my M29 and I Don't have that gun or kit anymore.
I have a pre Lee Precision Mecham tool which I recently got out to prove that you could get perfect crimps with I sometimes load slugs with it. It is all steel and was probably made in the 60's and is still nice. I don't see this plastic one lasting very long. The sizing function is dumb.
As far as bugging out? Where are you going to go? And How Long do you plan on being gone? Would you be better off just taking enough ammo with you?
If you must Bug Out wouldn't you be better off with one of my Hand Presses. I can load several calibers with the contents of this tool bag.
Randy
The sizing ring appears to be metal.
As a Lee Loader alumnus, I was pained to see several things that could have been done better by simply copying the long out of patent, Lee Loader and instructions.
I started reloading somewhere around 1976 with a Lee loader for 3" .410. Dad said he was going broke buying my shells. Followed a year or so later by a 2 3/4" 20 gauge kit.
I seldom got anything close to a factory appearing crimp with plastic shells. Maybe they work better with paper?
I remember Remington 3" .410 shells weren't 3", they were more like 2 7/8" Lee even included a spacer for them. Federal 3" .410 were all roll crimped, I never had any luck with them at all.
Also the Lee kit didn't size shotgun shells; my H&R would barely kick them out far enough to grab and pull the case out, it would put factory loads over your shoulder just by hitting the thumb lever. It was also sometimes a chore to pull the foreend back with either my Remington 870 or Dad's Winchester Model 1200 20 gauge.
All in all, I fall into the buy a used MEC camp, if you are going to reload shotgun shells. Preferably one that has the collet resizer.
Robert
“The spirit of Walter Mitty is strong in these!” How many of us/you are ever likely to actually face a “bug out” situation? [smilie=w:
In my case, I can only imagine assembling a “go bag” of gear to go on a camping/hunting trip, and I’m going to take a little more loaded ammo than I am likely to need. The one exception to this is those times when I have an extended match (North-South Skirmish or American Single Shot Rifle Associations) and the shooting pace is relatively slow and proper brass is expensive and in limited supply. Even then I like to go with as possible of my ammo preloaded and only reload there if necessary.
All that reloading cuts into my shootin’, drinkin’, and lie tellin’ time! :bigsmyl2:
Froggie
Here in California we have bug-out bags for earthquakes...some EQ's are more sever than others & your not likely to need the bag unless you live along the San Andreas fault line.
Now with all the fires it would be a good idea, at least you'd have some food and essentials for a few days of CHAOS.
I can see the use of such a bag (modified of course) for up north in the snow country where you can blizzard-ed in your car on the turnpike and get stuck for a day or more.
I wouldn't consider buggin out living in the Sierras here...but I would if I lived in a crowded city but that's for a Stuff-HTF scenario.
I collect or more accurately accumulate shotgun loading tools. Ponsness-Warren down to the Lee Loaders and about everything in between. The one hand loading kit that I own that makes a nice final crimp is the Russian small plastic press that was popular on the internet sales sites a couple years ago. (I've posted pics if you do a search) My only complaint with the Survival 410 tool or my Lee Loaders is that the final crimp is workable but not pretty. As to "Bugging out" I'm much to old and fat for that. I'll make my stand right here in the middle of my toys. Gp
Guys the key to getting good crimps with these tools lies in the Pre-Crimp. You need to get the Pre-Crimp closed as far as you can so that the final crimp just pushes it down, and doesn't have to do much of the closing. See the pics above in Post #7
I was having to push the Pre-Crimp tool down on the shell very hard several times to get it as closed as you see in the pic. The first few times it just opened right back up. Once I figured out how far to go I had no problem getting the final crimp to look right.
I either use my little Sinclair Arbor Press or my Drill press to run these tools. There is no way you can beat on them the same way every time with a hammer, and consistency matters in reloading.
Despite popular opinions on this subject, Hand Dies were never designed to be used with Hammers. They were designed to be ran with an Arbor Press. Lee just figured out that his tools could be ran with a plastic mallet and it didn't hurt the tools and it made it easier for the beginner to load ammo at home. When you look at it,,, Lee has gotten more people into reloading than all the others combined.
But by the same token,,, you won't see anyone beating on a Wilson Hand Die,,, which IMHO,,, should be a Capitol Offense !!!
If you do a "batch" type reloading process, where you run all the cases thru each step before moving to the next step, you can load say 20 or 50 rounds nearly as fast as you can with a Single Stage Press, It's all about getting your process down to where you aren't wasting a bunch of motion.
Anyway like I said above I don't see one of these plastic kits lasting very long. Lots of stuff being done with 3D printing but people need to figure out where the materials they have to work with are most appropriate.
My .02
Randy
The old wood versions likely shared this trait to a lessor or greater extent, but are often still found in great shape. This hints that I am not the only one that views such tools, even the more durable Lee or Herter's, primarily as tools to learn on then stash in a reloading desk drawer for occasional use or even just for the knowledge that I can load x or y or load it in an alternate way or place, if I want. They take up no more room than nor cost as much as a set of dies in their box.Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan
Although a loading kit would be of little help, people get stuck for a lot more than a day in some places. Where I used to live the local radio and paper / web news covered North Eastern WA, the ID Panhandle, and Western MT, and nearly every thaw reported on people discovered from the winter before. Pretty typical in other colder parts of Alaska, too. Oddly, it is not often newbies but long-term residents found as slowly thawing icicles.Quote:
Originally Posted by OS OK
Randy,Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan
I had come to pretty much the same conclusion... it's getting the existing crimp "petals" lined up and started down that makes all the difference. The video shown to demonstrate the new offering makes it clear that the user in the demo gets his crimp going really carefully and pretty deeply before moving on to the final step.
What I would like to know is where I can get such crimp starters in 410 bore. The old Lee Custom used to make them but when they went belly up, Lee Precision didn't take up their production... in fact, I'm not sure the current Lee does anything for hand loading ("pressless") shot shells. Do any of the small specialty vendors make a 410 crimp starter or do I have to continue to haunt flea Bay to find an old one? As an alternative, I'm thinking of buying a MEC crimp starter as a press part and converting it for hand use.
Froggie
The ones from MEC or Hornady will work just fine.
On .410's it is critical to get the Crimp Starter lined up with the previous folds or it wrecks the final crimp. The spines on the outside of the starters coincide with the splines on the inside of the tool. Figured that out all by myself!
Randy
With fewer people smoking, most folks have no way to start a fire. It is more likely they died from freezing than lack of food.Quote:
Originally Posted by Landy88
Yes, it was almost certainly hypothermia in nearly every case - they did not live long enough to get hungry. The most useful single things are a small space safe stove and a pot with which to make hot drinks putting some heat directly into you and your vehicle or other shelter. Dressing for the cold outside rather than the warm car or destination and having sleeping bags along on every trip are also key.Quote:
Originally Posted by dverna
But, I just noticed your Northern Michigan location. I kinda doubt that I can tell you anything about cold winters that you don't already know.
I live in So Cal,,, I still have small Sleeping Bags in all my cars. I usually have shorts and a tee shirt on so it could get cold enough at 40 degrees to be very uncomfortable if you had to spend a night in a car.
Did that on New Years Eve once in a 56 T Bird with 2 other guys. Our spare tire was on a Chevy Rim and when the rear tire blew we were prepared. Except for that Ford/Chevy thing! We were in the Maricopa Highway from Ojai to Taft and above 3000 feet elev.
Do you know how many cars came past us that night? Does "Zero" sound about right. The first one came by at 9:00 AM on New Years day.
We froze our butts off, and we were packed in that car tight, and running the engine/heater alot.. Last time I did that. It was 1967! We were idiots! It was low 30's that night.
Can't imagine what it would have been like if it was actually cold.
Randy
It's a tuff call on quality miniature reloading tools. Nice to have compacted quality tools but, the ractional of why and how you plan on using them can at times be illusive.
many years ago I was lucky enough to become good friend of a much older man who would go out in the everglades for weeks at a time with not much more than a hatchet, a knife, bunch of matches in a jar a coffee pot and pan and a 22 magnum and pocket full of ammo for it. him and his wife would go out in a pit pan( a little row boat made out of 1 sheet of plywood), they would find a high and dry spot and make a lean to and go trapping, hunting and fishing from there. He sure was from another era. there aren't many folks that would survive in the wild these days with a bug out bag and all the reloading goodies they could carry.
I have to agree MOA. I’m fascinated by things compact or miniature. But that doesn’t mean I’ve figured out a practical way to actually use them, particularly in a stress situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by MOA
Froggie
I lived in So. CA for most of my life and instead of being concerned about "Bugging Out" but "When the Big One Hits" for prepping. Been out of LA Co. for 11 years but still have the "be prepared mind set (didn't have to panic buy any reloading components nor TP or food). I don't see myself "bugging out", but rather hunkering down when the collapse comes, but we have been faced with evacuations due to Mother Nature (forest fires and tsunamis). I have ammo to take with me and 1,000 rounds of 9mm or 45 ACP takes up way less space than the components and reloading kit would, and mostly kept in one place, easy to get and transport...
My JIC stuff doesn't include a shotgun but I do have a 12 and a bunch of 00 buck loads. If I were to go up in the hills I'd take 2 of 45 ACPs (a 1911 and a HP Carbine) and my 10-22...
Guys you don't have to be a prepper to justify having a Lee style 12 ga loading kit.
I have one and I use it for many things. I can load Slugs and Buckshot just as fast with the kit as on my machines. With those rounds the only operations I use the machine for is sizing/depriming, re-priming, dropping powder, inserting the wad and the rest gets done by hand.
All of those operations can be done easily with hand tools, and lots of times if I only have a few to do I'll use them.
I also use them for taking apart shells that I've screwed up.
It is a worth while set of tools to have, and if you are only going to load a box or two a year, then they are less intrusive than a machine that has to be bolted down to a bench.
All you have to do is find a use for them. If they weren't useful they would have been around for so long.
Randy
I'm looking at this as a "newbie" to shotgun shell reloaded. I have been shooting, casting, etc. for 55 years. I have shot muzzleloading shotguns but have always had the "bug" to load some BP shotgun shells and just play with a single shot or a double - when I was a kid I had an old 16 ga. double. I'm "old" and I enjoy doing things the "old way" at times - I have presses but often use my Lymen and Ideal tong tools for hand loading.
I'm mainly looking at a 20 ga and a 12 ga - and since I like collecting old reloading tools - I have several of the old kits for those - the old roll crimper, wood wad seaters, wood primer remover, etc. I also have a 20 and a 12 Lee Classic loader. I plan on punching my own wads, etc. So . . . . I thought that the video was pretty interesting. I'm not up on 3D printers and all of that - but the kit looked interesting to me - for one, I am amazed at what 3D printers can do if this was made that way and, I was pretty impressed with the crimp that resulted from the simple tool.
Yea . . . . I know that a used MEC can speed things up and I respect that - but I have to believe that there are a number of folks like me that are primarily interested in "getting started" in loading up some shotgun shells and who are not planning on needed large quantities for shooting trap, sporting clays or even hunting. My hunting days are over - but I think would be fun to load some BP . . or even Red Dot loads up - and when I go shooting with a buddy, we can maybe toss a few clays and have fun. A "but out" kit? Well . . . to each their own. Like many, if it ever came to that I would opt for my revolver and carbine in .38/357 and a set of Lyman 310 steel tongs and dies - but that's me.
Would I buy one of these kits like in the video? Yea, I probably would if the price was fair. I would certainly buy the "crimper" by itself if it was offered as it looks like it works pretty well and for the low volume re-loading that I want to do - it might work just fine when using already fired plastic hulls. It's kind of a "modern day version" of the old Lee sets - being plastic, would it last forever? I'm guessing not.
Interesting though . . . . .
What about the 10Ring loaders? Anyone have and use one? james