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OK, I know I'm a little slow being from Texas and all but the Lee Bulge Buster looks to me to be just running a casing up through the factory crimp die with it's inner guts taken out. The only thing That I can tell the Bulge Buster kit is for is to make it so the casings go into the red plastic case the Bulge Buster comes in. Anyone else see this? I noticed this on a YouTube video.
ACC
Yep. I just remove the guts and do the same.
If you read the description on Lee’s site it tells you exactly what it is. It’s the parts to push the bullet through a factory crimp die, not included, and catch it at the end.
The push pin has a little divot. This can come in handy.
Yes this is a must do for .40 S&W brass fired in anything. You still will have to Full Length Resize the brass after the debulging operation.
and no you can't just stuff a .40 S&W case thru a F/L die because the base won't go thru. I tried it once didn't work because surprisingly,,,
Brass won't Compress. :holysheep
Randy
I find no need for bulge busting dies , if it has a bulge it goes in trash , any brass I have or find that has been swollen , bulged or has any signs of pressure and or improper head space or support goes into scrap , 40 s&w was pretty cheap and common 9mm is pretty cheap and common and those are the only ones I have seen with smiley faces , did find a 9mm swollen to 40 in a batch of brass I bought and had a batch I bought here years ago that had been bulge busted before selling .
In times of shortage I can see using what is scarce , but my experience has shown in my pistols or carbines no need of the bulge buster , and only run through the sizing die before loading .
This is how I do 40 S&W and 9 mm also.Quote:
Originally Posted by FLINTNFIRE
i have a redding bulge buster for 40s. Used to run all my newly acquired 40 once fired through it. Got lazy and quit doing it and have yet to have a round just ran though a conventional sizing die not feed in any of my 40s. Ive had batches of brass that most were bulged and batches none were and never saw a differnce in brass life either and never had one blow out the side so im sure not tossing good brass either. Been mass loading 40s (finished two days ago) For the most part the sizing die irons out any of the bulge anyway and thats even with the cheap lee dies ive been using. Much to do about nothing if you ask me. Never had a 9mm bulge buster and have loaded thousands of 9s with the glock bulge with a normal set of sizing dies and havent had a single issue with them either. Im not a 200 round a year shooter either. I go to the range with coffee cans of ammo and its nothing 500 rounds in a day. Im sure i average AT LEAST that a week. sometimes 3 or 4 times that much. I toss brass when primers wont stay in it or it has cracks. Or in rifles also when it has signs of impending head separation.
The bulge was a common problem in Glocks up to Gen 2,,, Gen 3 got the feed ramp fixed. Many people don't bother with this operation and now it is rare to see a bulged case when it was a new round and fired in a newer gun.
If fired in a Gen 1 or 2 G22, 23 or 35 there will be a noticeable bulge where the feed ramp meets the chamber. This will blow out if not dealt with and fired in the same gun again and lined up the same way as the previous firing. Kind of a krapshoot but still possible.
This causes the dreaded Glock Kaboom. See Pic.
This was finally attributed to early Federal .40 S&W cases marked "FC" or "FC10" which had an insufficient web in the lower part of the case. Subsequent cases had the Web of the case raised farther up the case wall so that area was reinforced more.
Randy
A bulge buster won't repair any cracking in the web region...just sayin'
Happens in Smith model 52s as well if they are overloaded ( for that specific gun) or a bullet seated too deep. Good luck
Just pointing out here, I'm sure everyone knows this, but they don't make a bulge buster for 9mm.
Bulge buster wont fix that. The brass is allready weakened and stretched in that spot and a bulge buster doesnt return that area to the thickness it was before. It just irons out the bulge so it will chamber easier.Quote:
If fired in a Gen 1 or 2 G22, 23 or 35 there will be a noticeable bulge where the feed ramp meets the chamber. This will blow out if not dealt with and fired in the same gun again and lined up the same way as the previous firing. Kind of a krapshoot but still possible.
THIS ^^^ 100% !!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by FLINTNFIRE
This nonsence that ALL 40 MUST BE DONE is just that! I shoot a few 40's in competition and I have for close to a decade. Before chinaflu we shot about 6-8 Steel matches and 4-6 3Gun matches AND PRACTICED EVERY WEEKEND! I shoot three diff pistols and two carbines, ALL IN 40. Some with factory and some after market bbls. I have a large amount of brass from Qualtico I have larger amounts from local PD ranges. Suffice it to say I see and load a wide and deep selection of brass and of makers. Each match is 3/400 rnds fired. Maybe 2-300 per 3gun and 2-500 per practice. Its adds up!!
I load 80% on two Dillon 550's one with RCBS dies and one with Dillon. NOT ONE TIME have I had a piece of brass NOT FUNCTION after being sized this way. The dillon works the brass a little more. Anyone owning Dillon dies is familiar with the hourglass shape its sizer produces. This is Untold thousands upon thousands of cases.
Now and this is my big caveat. Many folks dont know of what they speak. Im now speaking to a "Glock Smile" Most of what folks see is simply NORMAL BRASS fired from a generous chamber. A "SMILED CASE" is JUNK AND CANNOT BE SAVED! Its nearly sheared apart. Running it thru a bulge buster will 100% allow it to appear fine and it will chamber after sizing. BUT ITS NOT A GOOD THING!! I go thru all my brass and pitch out any smiled cases.
"Smiled" cases where a real common thing inFIRST GENERATION GLOCK 40 barrels. But was fixed 100% But second generation guns. So lets let that die as it should have DECADES AGO! What is sceen today is just simply fat brass and a regular good quality sizer die will
Produce a sized case that will function just fine. Smiles can still occur with perfectly good chambers!! Today we see a goodly amount of PCC guns and some are chambered in 40. Your regular run of the mill 40 PCC or Carbine is a blow back action. Meaning its bolt does not lock as it do on a typical hand gun. Its handled with heavy springs and a solid heavy bolt. BUT and this is a BIG BUT! The 40 fas some pressure and when a case is fired its brass walls seal to the chamber but the recoil IS GOING to pull that case out. If the pressure curve is very high/strong cases can be ripped in two. If its slightly less, but still high, the case can be pulled back but remember pressures are HIGH enough to SMILE the case as its web is removed from the chamber. THIS is NOT A GUN PROBLEM its a AMMO problem. BUT STILL ruins a case as it can and likely is sheared at the "smile".
As stated above, your best bet is to learn what your looking at and toss any cases that are questionable. Im not able to post pics but searching the web will Produce pics of a true "glock smiled" case and these should be tossed.
Attachment 269312Attachment 269313
As I shoot a wide variety of .45acp caliber guns, revolvers, autos and pcc’s I’ve found that the pcc’s will bang up the case rims somewhat, I’ve also had my pc bullets expand the brass. While they might work in some of my guns doing this step makes them universal. Running my loads through one of the old style lee bulge busters, which is not a regular sizing die, irons them out so that they chamber in any of my .45acp firearms. My buster is in an old press mounted on the wall of my reloading room rigged so that when the load pops out the top a spring propels it into a dillon box mounted on the wall. Works good. Doesn’t take any time at all. I don’t own any glocks.
Those pics show BRASS FAILURE. They are in no way the result if a bad or oversized chamber. As the "blow out" is within the extractor cut and in a place where the brass is solid.Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan
So good to hear someone who knows the issues on 40 cal Glocks have been long since fixed. ♥️
CW
CW; This whole Glock Kaboom BS was finally attributed to the Early Federal Cases marked "FC" And FC10 which had insufficient material in the web to run safely in an unsupported chamber. The fix was raising the web higher in the case.
The one in the picture came from a Santa Barbara Police 2nd Gen Glock 22. And this was a Glock Kaboom and I was standing to the right of him on the line. This resulted in the mag being blown out the bottom and the gun needing some work, but not destroyed. I got the case which was ejected into my dump bag, and the episode Woke him right the F up! This happened in 2007 when this ammo was still laying around in many places that stocked up on cheap ammo...... Like PD's
This was a Catastrophic Case Failure, but it happened in the same place as the normal Glock Bulge for that era happened and the reason for the original Bulge Buster in the first place.. The web on the case was so thin all the way down to the Extractor Groove that it could not contain the 35,000 psi this round generates unless it was fully supported like in a Rifle Chamber which didn't exist at the time.
Both of my Glocks are Gen 3's (23 and 35) and don't have this problem, however the problem really doesn't exist anymore because Federal figured it out and changed the design of the cases 15 years ago. Everyone else made better brass to begin with.
9MM's are tapered cases and won't go thru a Bulge Buster and are much stronger than .40's,,, and .45's are low pressure and don't need debulging.
I ran a thread about this over at Trapshooters.com in 07 or 08 and Don Verna told me about this place, and I've been here ever since.
At that time I ran all my good cases thru the Lee Die but I haven't debulged a case since about 2010.
As a side note I went thru all my brass which was mostly Winchester, but I managed to find 10 FC's and FC10's in the process. Little time bombs waiting to go off.
But the other thing I never did was load a .40 S&W round even close to Factory Pressures. Since when do you need ammo loaded to that level let alone hotter to poke holes in paper target 5-25 yards away? It is pointless. 5.4 gr of W231 with 165 gr plated boolits, has been my standard load for 14 years now.
My PCC .40 runs them just fine.
Randy
9MM's are tapered cases and won't go thru a Bulge Buster and are much stronger than .40's,,, and .45's are low pressure and don't need debulging.
Randy[/QUOTE]
If you’re going to use that Lee bulge buster kit the only way you can get it to work on 9 mm is to use a Makaroff factory crimp die instead of a 9 mm factory crimp die. The only difference between 9 x 18 and 9 x 19 is that the 9 x 19 is A tapered case and the 9 x 18 is straight walled. That is except for the fact that the 9 x 19 is 1 mm longer than a 9 x 18
My perspective is a little different. I bought a LOT of used .40 brass several years ago for USPSA consumption. It is used in an STI Edge which has a tighter chamber than the average carry gun. I run every piece of brass through my Case Master Jr. before loading it for the first time. I mark my brass so I only pick up my own. That eliminates the need to full length size again. If I try to size with a standard sizing die the rounds frequently will not chamber. They also will fail in the case gauge. I’ve never had a case fail in the web area. They eventually crack lengthwise between the web and the mouth but rarely to the mouth. Nothing bad happens when they crack and cracked cases are easily found due to the very different sound they make when dropped on a wooden bench.
If you’re going to use that Lee bulge buster kit the only way you can get it to work on 9 mm is to use a Makaroff factory crimp die instead of a 9 mm factory crimp die. The only difference between 9 x 18 and 9 x 19 is that the 9 x 19 is A tapered case and the 9 x 18 is straight walled. That is except for the fact that the 9 x 19 is 1 mm longer than a 9 x 18[/QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by poppy42
Poppy; I don't do 9MM! Proper calibers start with a .4.
.40 S&W is the only brass that ever needed de-bulging and even that is not necessary so much anymore.. All my .40 S&W brass is a one time only proposition, as I can't pick it up where I shoot. If someone picks it up then they can deal with it as they see fit.
My 2 Auto pistol rounds are .40 and .45 ACP and the .45's are bought in bulk from various places or range pickups when someone leaves a bunch laying around. They leave alot of .45 ACP laying around at my club? They get tumbled and loaded. Probably won't see them again either. My Glock 21 SF has had exactly 1 Factory loaded round shot in it. All the rest have been my reloads I got the gun because I had thousands of Range Pickups that I needed to do something with. Makes sense right?
Randy
When I got my first .40 I took the guts out of my Dillon .40 sizing die and tried push through sizing. I managed to get a few through but the forces involved were huge. I had to bear down on the handle with both hands and a good portion of my weight. It jolted my entire body as the web and rim passed through the carbide ring. I quit before I broke something. In fact, surprised nothing broke.Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan
The Case Master Jr. uses a Dillon die that Magma hones with a diamond hone. They enlarge it a hair and remove the taper, according to what the man at Magma told me. It works easily and produces ammunition that feeds 100% in my STI.
As you indicate, the "Glock Bulge" situation was long ago remedied.Quote:
Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan
A case with a noticeable bulge should be tossed. While a Bulge Buster or G-Rx can correct the outside dimensions, there is no fixing a thinning/shearing spot. Frankly it is unwise to do so.
I own a carbide G-Rx die, and I use it to cleanup nicks on my 10mm cases rims, but not much else. My sizers get spent 40 cases to gauge virtually 100%. Adding a pass-through operation would literally double the handle pulls for no appreciable benefit.
I would never recommend someone to try to fix a piece of brass of any cartridge that has been bulged.
I use a G-Rx die on any range .40 I pick up......takes just a minute to run them through....and IMO is great insurance to trouble-free feeding. Then I size it later.
As far as I'm concerned all fired brass is "bulged". All the G-Rx does is unbulge .40 the rest of the way. IOW's past where regular dies "unbulge" it. I agree Glock improved their chambers, but they weren't the only guilty parties.....just the worst.
While I have always tossed damaged brass with "Glock Smiles" I've debulged, sized, reloaded, and shot slightly bulged cases I picked up from a police range for years with no failures any more common than other caliber cases better chamber supported.
I wonder if the really badly deformed cases that I've seen (rarely) were cause by flawed chambers a result of quality control, or even extreme wear, rather than design. I sure wouldn't reload those.
I've loaded enough forty that I conclude that, aside from very early Glock chambers and obsolete thin FC brass, bulged brass is from excessive pressure. The most commonly bulged brass in my area is 9mm. Mostly from 9mm major ammo (some SMG too, but that's a different story). That is all way over loaded. Shot once and left in the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by GWS
I've pulled apart so many rounds picked up at the range to see QC is all over the place.
FWIW, never an issue sizing range pickups and passing a case gauge in my experience, and I gauge 100% of my handgun ammo.