Recommendations for 9mm

There are a lot of threads on this, and I've read all of them that I could find, but I'm still interested in recommendations.

I never loaded for 9mm before, because I could buy bulk for $0.17/rnd, and hand loads cost as much or more, plus the time I had to put into it. But with the recent run on ammo, I want to replace my plinking ammo with cast. Of course, if I'm going to cast and load for it, I'll want to experiment and try to get decent performance out of it also.

I'm open to suggestions for weight, bullet style, etc. I think these will need to be PCd, to overcome velocity limitations, and I don't want to pan lube in bulk. PC vs Hi-Tek?

So who has a mould that drops a great, easy-feeding, decent performance boolit that they want to tell me about? What's your process, load data, etc? Issues with leading and the like?

I'm looking for a good, general purpose plinking boolit, lube/coat, and load for semi-auto pistol. I mostly shoot Sigs in 9mm, but might load for a few others as needed.

Ryan

This information has been provided in the following link and recommends two Lee bullets that are available in both 2 cav and 6 cav molds. This is in post #1 of the thread. Due to many variables, it is always suggested you work up your load from the suggested starting book load. The problem you are likely to have is that these molds or any bullet molds, may not be in stock at this time.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...s-in-a-new-9mm

I would start with a Lee 356-120 TC mold. That style boolit will work with most 9mm barrels in terms of throat compatibility. Then slug your barrel so you know what to size your boolits to. Maybe start with straight coww alloy air cooled. Powder coat and size accordingly. There are some good threads on casting for and loading 9mm. I recently tried some of my 9mm loads that worked well in my M&P 9 but shot poorly in my new CZ 75 B. It can be a fussy cartridge to get cast boolit results from.

Edit; You should slug your barrel first before ordering a mold.

9mm reloading turned out to be more difficult for me to learn than straight wall pistol, or bottle neck rifle reloading. The tapered case was squeezing down the base diameter on my cast projectiles. It gave me a problem with accuracy and leading. I ended up using an expander from a 38 Special that helped prevent "squeeze down." But size is king. My 9mm slugged .357" and my cast projectiles dropped at .356". Powder coating eliminated the leading problem and increased bullet diameter. Now I get accuracy better than factory ammo.

The cast bullet I'm working with is the Lee 124 grain, RN TL. I was given thousands of them by a friend years ago. With the ammo shortage, I figured it was time to load them up. I had good success with WW231, AA#5 and Unique powders. I had poor success with Bulleseye which was dirty and did not give the accuracy of my other powders in my guns. Blue Dot worked well in both my pistol and 9mm carbine.

A search here on Cast Boolets will give up lots of load data.

Right now you need to see if you can get small pistol primers, before you invest in casting equipment.

For some of my 9mm I do use the expander and seating die for the size of the cast boolites I need to load in them for what my gun slug to I use the 357 mag dies I have ,

The barrel slugs at .356, so I think I'm looking for something that drops at .357-.358 in order to give me options, whether to go with a full-size .358 or to size down in increments to find the right bullet for my barrel.

Edit: I have the old style Lyman 385429, but it's way too long to seat properly in a 9mm case.

Ryan

I PC all my boolits so mold sizes aren't that critical. I've found that several guns prefer .358 and shot like a shotgun at smaller dimensions. A lot of it depends on your barrel how deep the grooves are/type of rifling. IF you get one that drops at 358 (like you said) you can always size it down. your barrel will give you the answer by shooting different sizes and loads

The 2 biggest problems loading 9MM
The 2 biggest problems/causes of failure with loading cast in 9MM are OVER-CRIMPING & downsizing the boolit when seating.
The 9MM has a tapered case.

Crimping, I use the Lee FCD and only crimp to where the boolit won't move when the cartridge is pushed against a hard object.

For seating I like the NOE neck sizing dies so much I talked with a member ob CB who made a Lee powder through die with the NOE profile of several different diameters. I've had good luck expanding the brass using the same diameter expanding plug as the boolit diameter (brass springs back .001 after expanding and that.
.001 does the job holding the boolit in place!

A 38spcl/357mag expander plug should work also

I used to expand the neck with the NOE neck sizing die the use the Lee powder through setup to charge the case.

Ues a kinetic boolit puller and make sure you're not downsizing the boolit in either of these operations.

this will go a long way toward tightening up your groups and preventing leading/tumbling

The biggest groove dimension on my sigs is .3555. The throats are a different story. I hitek coat and size to .3578 so they survive the trip through the throat. That half thousandth in the groove was so I could lap that sorry roto-forged barrel. One barrel was too big in the throat to use even the .3578 bullet cuz the neck of the chamber was too small. Slug your barrel to find it's dimensions and reduce your frustrations. I had to get Lathesmith to make me a custom expander/powder funnel for my 550 to get those bullets to seat without reducing their size. I seem to remember .356. He made it a bit oversized and I polished it to final dimension. I shoot the same ammo in my west germany P226 without issue. I was gifted the same lot of brass from my local PD's qualification range time so it's pretty consistent. I'm using NOE mold HTC 356-135-RF, CCI SP primers and 3.55 grains of Clean Shot. I didn't have to do a thing to my pistols to get 100% function. My final cost is 6 cents/round. Good Luck with your adventure.

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Originally Posted by ioon44

Right now you need to see if you can get small pistol primers, before you invest in casting equipment.

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^^ What he said.

Otherwise I'd recommend the Lee 356-120-TC or for a better quality mold the NOE 359-121-RN (which is in stock today). It is easy to make either of these feed very reliably. COAL is weapon dependant, you can plunk-test for your chamber. I find perfect function in multiple 9MM's with the 356-120-TC at COAL 1.052" and the 359-121-RN at COAL 1.065". I recommend sizing to .358 not only because it works in every 9MM I've loaded for but also because if you don't expand the case neck to .356 you're probably going to size nown your bullet anyway. .001" is a very small measure. As for loads, get at least two good manuals and see what your weapon likes best. My go-to is Blue Dot 6.5 gr. for the two boolits mentioned above. It's not hard to out perform factory ammo.

I went through several different 9mm moulds ...the Lee 356-120-TC , 120 gr. truncated cone , was about the right weight and the TC profile fed from all 4 different pistols I had . All liked boolits sized .357 " .
I wanted to use a softish alloy , air cooled and drive them to 1,000 fps which gave me the idea of a gas checked boolit .
That led to a NOE 358-124-TC-GC mould . It's a winner . Sized .357 I use it in 9mm luger loads .
Size the same bullet to .358 and I use it in 38 Special +P loads and even 357 Magnum loads .
The gas check lets me drive them to some decent velocities .
If you have a 357 magnum rifle this one is just the ticket ... the GC keeps the lead at bay .
If I want any plain base ... I have the Lee 2 cavity mould . But the 4 cavity NOE is getting all the action . I'm one who isn't allergic to gas checks and see a benifit from using them .
One thing I don't care for is the round nose design ... I have the Lee 356-125-2R and they feed just fine ... but I always grab the TC or a SWC design when casting . The Lee 358-105-SWC makes a surprisingly good 9mm boolit ... I have a WWII era Walther P-38 that loves that one .

Gary

I have a Lee .38 long and short die set, I should be able to use the expander for opening the case mouth enough.

I am dangerously low on all primers (except LR, I have about 1800 or so, including a hundred pack of magnum that I haven't ever needed, and I only use them for .308), I hadn't restocked before all this happened. But I've got enough to do a few runs and work out a cast and load, and hopefully in the next month or two I'll be able to restock.

Really a shame about the primer situation. Hard to sell reloading equipment when there are no primers. I just cast some pure lead .359 boolits to do some barrel slugging. Got a new to me CZ 75 that won't shoot .357 boolits well at all. Think I can deal with a .358 groove diameter but any bigger would be a problem. We shall see.......

I second the 356-120gr TC and powder coating.

Did some looking and found a couple molds available. Ordered the Lee 358-125-RF and the 356-120-TC based on the above recommendations, both in 6 cavity to speed up production.

For ~$40-$60 each, I'm not out much if one doesn't work for my pistol, and it may still work for someone else who wants to let me play with their toys. Went ahead and got the .356, .357, and .358 sizing dies while I was at it. There's a gun show coming in a couple weeks, where I can usually score some primers and powders. It'll take a while for me to get the stuff in, cast a bunch, and work up some loads, but I'll report back with my findings.

After that, I'll start digging into coatings. Any opinions on PC vs HI-TEK?

Folks on this site get good results from both PC and Hitek. Pick your poison.

I want to point out that the start of the web on a 9mm case is a lot farther up the case wall then 38/357. You may have to expand and flare in 2 steps. I didn't have enough die space on my Dillon to do that. You can do it the multistep way to figure out what you need before you make the investment.

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Originally Posted by jsizemore

Folks on this site get good results from both PC and Hitek. Pick your poison.

I want to point out that the start of the web on a 9mm case is a lot farther up the case wall then 38/357. You may have to expand and flare in 2 steps. I didn't have enough die space on my Dillon to do that. You can do it the multistep way to figure out what you need before you make the investment.

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I just ordered a 6 cav Lee 358-105 SWC partly because my CZ has a larger groove diameter and also the shorter boolit will be easier to case mouth expand for. I can also use it in my K-38 Smith. We can all report back on our results.

The Lee 358-105 is a fine little boolit for 9mm or .38. A six cavity will allow you to produce plenty of them. Once I learned where to seat them all of my 9,s run them well.

My lee 158 125 Rf and the lee 356 120 tc is

Is great in my 9 mm not sized. I got the Lee 358 105 I haven’t shot yet but casted a bunch up. I use only white lable lube 45/45/10 or lee liquid alox. 3.5 to 4 gr of bulseye works great for 115 to 125 gr bullets. Only problem my high point likes Bullets sized to .357 and all the rest like .358. I use range scrap to wheel weights. I even tried wheel weights cut in half with pure lead .I do use the NOE expanders With the lee flare tool and get no leading.

This doesn't address your bullet casting/sizing issues, but I'd like to suggest that you use Unique or BE-86 as a propellant. It'll largely take the "Is this the right propellant?" question out of the equation.
I found out the other day that I've been a proponent of Alliant Unique for so many cartridges for so many years, that my local reloader friends refer to me as "Mr. Unique". In any case, I'm going to do it again. I've obtained best results in 9mm with Unique or BE-86, followed by Herco, followed by AA#5. I've found that the very fastest burning powders tend to yield mediocre results. I've had at least adequate results with most powders that are no faster than Red Dot or W231, and no slower than Blue Dot.

I use unique more than 50% of the time in most of the pistol loads I do anyway. It's a safe assumption that unique would be at the top of my list anyway, although not a foregone conclusion, since I haven't loaded for 9mm before.

In fact, the only reason I might want to try to find another powder that will work is because I use unique in so many other loads, and I'm running low.

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Originally Posted by Kosh75287

This doesn't address your bullet casting/sizing issues, but I'd like to suggest that you use Unique or BE-86 as a propellant. It'll largely take the "Is this the right propellant?" question out of the equation.
I found out the other day that I've been a proponent of Alliant Unique for so many cartridges for so many years, that my local reloader friends refer to me as "Mr. Unique". In any case, I'm going to do it again. I've obtained best results in 9mm with Unique or BE-86, followed by Herco, followed by AA#5. I've found that the very fastest burning powders tend to yield mediocre results. I've had at least adequate results with most powders that are no faster than Red Dot or W231, and no slower than Blue Dot.

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What range in grains of Herco do you use? I have a lot of Herco that I have to use up and I just started loading for 9mm Auto.

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Originally Posted by blackthorn

What range in grains of Herco do you use? I have a lot of Herco that I have to use up and I just started loading for 9mm Auto.

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I use the lower end of Unique data and work up to where I want to be. Herco and Unique are right next to each other on the burn charts, and act much the same in loads. The biggest difference between them I have found is the burn color. When you fire a magnum load of unique the flash is white hot and as bright as an arc welder! An equal load of Herco has a dull orange flame. If you shoot indoors or in low light it becomes more evident! Good Luck, DR

Like the OP, I did not load 9mm. There was just not a lot of savings in it. But the way things are, I dug out an old set of dies and started loading 9mm. I have a couple molds that I make bullets for 38 super, and 38 spl, that I can get good 9mm bullets from.
What I had forgotten is that the tapered case is a pain to set the sizing die to just bring the case down to the right size. I'm using old steel C-H dies and if you set them to where the shell holder touches the die, it undersizes the case. Then when I seat a bullet it swages a bulge in the case.
My first test batch all passed the plunk test , and fired well, But I will do better on the next test run.
I knew there was a reason I didn't like loading 9mm.
This time I'll be sure to record how high I need to lift the die to get them right!
I loaded a 124 gr Lee TC bullet over 3.8 gr of TiteGroup. They all cycled, and were accurate enough. I just need to work on the die setting. DR

BLACKTHORN, the range of charge weights for Herco in 9x19mm with 125s was 5.6 - 6.2 gr. If memory serves, 5.8/Herco/125 LRN gave me ~1050 f/s. They're right, about the muzzle flash. I'm betting that it'd decrease somewhat with heavier charges & higher pressures.

And I tried Herco in 9mm because I, too, ran out of Unique, because I use it so much!

question about the Lee 120TC. what sizes are you getting as it drops from the mold. i hope to get .358. i haven't got one yet. it will be my first 9mm mold. i will get a 2 cavity and if it works; i will up-grade

Thank you Kosh75287.

For monetary reasons many years ago I started casting my own boolits. I started with .45auto. When I bought my 9mm I bought a mold for that too, I started with the Lee TL 356-124 2R, and it served me very well for a long time. I bought a mold for my 45 auto that made H&G 68 clones (Semi Wad Cutter) because of the beautiful holes it makes in the paper. I found that Lee makes a SWC mold in 9 mm and bought one (a 2 cavity). It is actually sold as a 358-105 SWC. I size them down to .357. I was a little concerned by the weight, but after pouring some and using Lee Liquid Alox, I was totally impressed. So when powder coating came along I tried that on them and was even more impressed. I have had a lot of fun finding the right powder and grains for the load, but have had a lot of success. I know, pretty holes is a goofy reason to choose a boolit shape, but that is just me. I really love this hobby/sport.

I have to admit, in my recent first tests with the 454424 I was amazed how the ground behind the target looked like someone dropped their hole punch and spilled out a bunch of intentionally cut, perfectly circular little bits of paper. I can't explain why that was so satisfying, but it definitely was.

My concern with SWC for 9mm would be with proper feeding across various pistols. An RNTC seems like a safer bet.

The Lee 356-120 and the 358-125 came in, but they're both 6 cavity, and I don't currently have any 6 cav mold handles, so I guess I have to wait for handles to be delivered.

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Got my Lee 358-105. Drops nice boolits at .3595". Just powder coated a small batch and sized 30 to .358". Loaded on top of 4.2 grains of Titegroup. Will be testing these in my CZ 75 B. I'm using a NOE expander and Dillon 9mm dies which have separate seat and crimp dies. We shall see.......

I cast the Lee 358-125-rf for my 9mm with a .3580 groove dia. and get good accuracy. My mold drops them at around .358 (give or take .0001) so you do have other options. I have not yet loaded any .38 spl. with them so can't speak to that.

I cast 100 or so from each mold for testing, and they both drop at right about .3580-.3585.

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I have sizer dies for .356, .357, and .358, so I'll seat and crimp one of each size for both boolit styles, and see how they look, if they bulge, how they seat, how they chamber, etc.

Whichever ones work that far, I'll load and start shooting with the smaller diameters and work my way up, watching for leading, seeing how they group, if they keyhole, etc.

I'll just pan lube these test rounds, but once I figure out the boolits themselves I'll start looking at coatings.

Then I'll borrow a 9mm from my brother, and maybe one from a friend, and do it all again to see if I can find a "standard" bullet and load to make that I can actually share without causing problems.

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Originally Posted by ryanmattes

I cast 100 or so from each mold for testing, and they both drop at right about .3580-.3585.

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I have sizer dies for .356, .357, and .358, so I'll seat and crimp one of each size for both boolit styles, and see how they look, if they bulge, how they seat, how they chamber, etc.

Whichever ones work that far, I'll load and start shooting with the smaller diameters and work my way up, watching for leading, seeing how they group, if they keyhole, etc.

I'll just pan lube these test rounds, but once I figure out the boolits themselves I'll start looking at coatings.

Then I'll borrow a 9mm from my brother, and maybe one from a friend, and do it all again to see if I can find a "standard" bullet and load to make that I can actually share without causing problems.

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Good looking boolits there!

My favorite mold for my 9mm, 38 Spec., and 357 Mag is the Lee 358-125-RF. I just size it to the gun it's to be used in. I started out just pan lubing, then dip lubing and PCed several hundred. All worked quite well in my 9mm pistols. Lately I've been getting lazy and just lube them with my Speed Green or Carnauba Red...

Pan lubing is fine in small batches, but it seems like PC or Hi-Tek would be faster at volume. I can only pan lube about 50 at a time, and I spend way too much time cleaning the lube off the bases and crimp grooves.

With PC or Hi-Tek I could do 500 at a time, and no cleaning the bullets one at a time.

Great looking boolits !

I seated all 3 sizes of both styles in an empty case, to make sure they fed and chambered properly, and all 3 chambered fine, both directly (by hand) and from the magazine.

Next step is to load up a set of 20 in each size and both styles, and see which shoots best. Hopefully none of them leave leading.

Looks like the TC got damaged a bit by the feed ramp, so that's not good. But the bullet seating die seems to have left a mark on the RF, so.ill have to look at that too.

I'll also need to experiment with the seating depth and crimp, since the TC doesn't have a crimp groove but the RF does. But since 9mm indexes on the case, I can't really use the crimp groove. I assume that's intended for .357. So do I just seat past the crimp groove and taper crimp over it?

Also, anyone have trouble with the Lee FCD resizing your bullets for you? Is it squashing my .358 sized bullets down to .356? I didn't really feel the sizing ring when I crimped, so I'm not sure it did anything, but I'm wondering if anyone else has had a problem using the FCD, and if I need to get the standalone taper crimp die.

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Nice job.

Only you can tell if the FCD is causing problems. A way to find out is to pull a few bullets and measure their diameter.

The crimp groove thing is not an issue. Just seat and taper crimp where the round will feed properly.

The seating stem can be an issue with different shape bullets. Some mfgs including two different stems, one for RN and one for SWC. Once you decide which bullet you will use for a gun, then you can reshape the seating stem if you want (for pistols it really doesn't cause a problem). Either by cutting, or, with some JB Weld (wax a bullet/case with Johnson's past wax, put a blob of JB Weld in the end of the seating stem and press it against the bullet, wipe off excess, let set).

I think because the 9mm case it tapered, the sizing ring in the FCD never touches the case at the mouth. Just an logical deduction, I haven't tested it, but I'm pretty confident. On a straight case it might cause a problem.

The ones I seated all fed great by manually cycling the action, but the test loads will tell the real story.

The die set has another seating stem, I'll have to check it against the RF slug and see if it fits better. It was late and I just wanted to get them crimped and tested, a little mar on them doesn't matter for what I was trying to test.

Good news is, since they all chamber correctly, I have options to test, to find what works best.


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