Light load 44 Mag question

Being mostly a rifle shooter I thought I would get some opinion on making ACCURATE light loads for the 44 Mag.
I would like to try to shoot our local 100meter Silhouette match with this ammo.
1970's era Ruger SBH, 0.432" cylinder by pin-gauge.
I intend to shoot bullets cast from RCBS 250K mold, or maybe the RCBS 250KT. I have access to both.

Primer and powder are the questions.
I am thinking 850 - 1000 FPS maximum

Red dot, Bullseye, Universal, Unique, Herco ???
Please tell me what I don't know about making an accurate revolver load.

-Chill

I'd read up on it in the Lyman cast handbook, for a couple of reasons, but those seem awful fast.

H110 & 2400 are some favorites for it.

H110 for 800 FPS light loads?

You want a fast burning powder. Don’t know about 100m but my friend used Bullseye at 50yards for fun steel targets with his Henry...

Should add they are powder puff loads....

Here you go:

Tales from the Back Creek Diary - Bullseye Powder .44 Magnum “Medium” Velocity Loads

Soft, plain based, bullets and fast-burning powders provide economy and utility.

C.E. “Ed” Harris, Gerrardstown, WV

A firearm does not need to be operated at “full power” any more than any other machine. It is true that some people still believe that if you own a .44 Magnum and reload for it, you must be able to feel the heat on your face every time you pull the trigger, as your hand stings and your ears ring. But this is nonsense, of course. Less power loads are fine for recreation and most field shooting. They indeed have their place. My friends and I probably shoot 100 rounds of “medium velocity” loads for every dinosaur killer. Few reloading manuals list loads for the .44 Magnum other than hand busters. Experienced reloaders successfully improvise, but less intrepid, practical shooters are frustrated.

The so-called “medium velocity” load is subsonic when fired in from a typical revolver. It also does not exceed the leading threshold of about 1300-1400 fps., when a soft, plain-based bullet is fired from a rifle. Remington offered marketed exactly such a .44 Magnum load for a short time during the early to mid 1980s. It was intended for the police market, as a counterpart in .44 Magnum, to the similar lead bullet .41 Magnum police load, which has also, unfortunately been discontinued.

Remington’s .44 Magnum Medium Velocity load offering used a flat-nosed, 240-grain, plain- based, swaged lead bullet with two cannelures, resembling an elongated .44-40 slug. Its shape mimicked today’s “Cowboy Loads” having a catalog velocity of 1000 f.p.s. from a 4-inch vented test barrel, simulating revolver conditions.

These ballistics approximate those of the original 1873 black powder .45 Colt service cartridge, when fired from a 7-1/2 inch barrel. This is hardly today’s “mouse-fart” cowboy load, but stout stuff like they used to kill buffalo and shoot Indians. For today’s hand loader the greatest economy is realized by being able to exploit plain-based cast bullets, using the least expensive, soft scrap alloy, such as wheel weights or common scrap, with faster-burning pistol or shotgun powders which provide twice as many rounds per pound, as the slow-burners normally used for full power .44 Magnum loads.

Lyman’s Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition lists .44 Magnum charges with using fast-burning powders, but their starting loads, while useful in revolvers, often exceed the leading threshold of plain based bullets, when fired in a rifle. Newer powders such as Titegroup or Trail Boss are listed, but my favorite, Bullseye was not. Be careful in reducing slower burners, such as #2400, because ballistic uniformity is impaired if you go below about 16 grains in the .44 Magnum case with 240-gr. bullet.

What follows is my listing of loads which “work” and are well proven. I hope this shortens your learning curve and that they work as well for you as they do for my friends and I.

Medium Velocity Loads for .44 Mag., 265-gr. Saeco #441, BHN11, unsized .433”, LLA

Case, Primer and______Velocity Velocity_______Five, 5-shot Groups* @ 50 yds. H&R
Charge Weight________5-1/2” RBH____H&R 22”*__Largest_Smallest__Average

Remington .44 Mag. WLP
6.0 Bullseye, LD#11____774, 36Sd_____983, 49Sd___2.5_____1.9___2.24
6.6 Bullseye, LD#12____948, 13Sd____1141, 9Sd____2.5_____1.4___1.94
7.8 Bullseye, LD#14___1017, 11Sd____1233, 10Sd___2.5_____1.2___1.88

It is dirty, but I'm sticking with Unique powder. Love that stuff. Mid range loads it is my Fav. 45 ACP, 357 & the 44 mag. Lot's of fun, accurate & cheap too

Just go to the top end of the 44 special loads... I think all of those powders are listed. I shot some lighter loads with unique in short barrel 629 "trail boss". Pretty pleasant actually.

As I recall, 8 grains of Unique behind a 240 grain lead semi-wad cutter worked for me. I don't have my data here for that load, tho.

HS6. Start at 10.5 grains and see what you get. My favorite load is 12 grains with 250, 260, and 290's. While the 290's are a stouter load than the lighter bullets, it's still what I consider a medium load (subjective I know). At the level I load to, HS6 is very clean and more importantly, very very accurate.

HS6 is what I use in all of my revolvers when I don't want the extra goodness that H110 offers. At lighter charges HS6 can give you the idea that it is dirty, but get it to where it wants to run, pressure wise, and it's as clean as any powder I've used.

Anyone have a recipe for Trail Boss with a 250 gr boolit for around 800-900 fps?

Thanks

6.5 of red dot and 7.0 of 700x have shot well for me in several different. 44's with Keith boolits.

Okay, thanks for the input. Based on the replies, unlike rifle I guess there aren't that many variables. Just load the different combinations and follow the best results.

I cast 59 sample bullet from the RCBS Keith mold in a scrap alloy that tests about 10-11 on the LBT hardness tester and does not age harden much more than a point in two weeks. They weigh 269 grains on average.. Kinda heavy for a 250 grn mold. They run 0.429" on one side of the parting line and 0.431 on the other.

Other than powder choice, charge weight, primer choice and maybe degree of crimp, I am not sure what else I can adjust that will produce an accurate load from just another load, by that, meaning the "the also ran's".

I am going with a few load levels of BE and RedDot to start with, Wolf LPP primers and, a light crimp. It will be a few days until I can get past the deep snow that just arrived to know much on the target.
I'm not sure the Chrono numbers mean much so I will leave that at home. The target will say.

Groo here
I have had luck with Trailboss loaded as follows.....
In a magnum----- Fill the case to the bottom of the bullet with powder[a little lighter OK but NO Compression]
Light with a magnum or hot primmer.
Use a HEAVY crimp...
Trailboss likes to be treated like 296/H110 ...

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Originally Posted by fast ronnie

As I recall, 8 grains of Unique behind a 240 grain lead semi-wad cutter worked for me. I don't have my data here for that load, tho.

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Bingo!

I use 7.5 grains in 44 special (900 FPS skeeter load) so 8 grains in 44 mag. Would be very close. In my colt new frontier, this load drops everything out to 100 yards. It just plain works without punishment.

These days it's 8.0grs of Unique/250 #429421 or RCBS 250KT for Me.

In the past I shot 1,000's & 1,000's of a little heavier load of 9.5grs of Unique under a 250gr #429421.

I've shot a lot of the RCBS 44-250-KTs and the Lyman 429421s over 8.5 gr Unique to know that's my favorite load in my 44 Magnums. It runs right at 1000 fps out of my 6 1/2" Ruger FTBH and is extremely accurate and easy to shoot. The pressure, as measured in my Contender test barrel via an Oehler M43 runs a gentle 19,000 to 19,5000 psi.

I suggest you try 8 gr, 8.5 gr and 9 gr in your Ruger under either bullet you have. BTW; I size my COWW + 2% tin bullets at .430 and lube with BAC.

Ditto with using some 44 special recipes.

My favorite 44mag light practice load is Saeco 200gr truncated cone with 7grs of W231. About 900fps with 7-1/2" bbl. For the 44spl, I use same bullet with 6grs of W231. The 44mag. load is accurate in 3 different guns. And dropping to 200gr. bullet saves some lead just for practicing.

BigboreShooter

I have some comments about my experience with accuracy, that you may want to consider.
I'm assuming this 100m Competition is off hand?

I gotta ask, why light loads?
Is there a reason? ...100m Competition Rules? ...arthritis in the wrist?

I don't know if there is anything more to it, then just the boolit going faster, but when I shot 100m, I got the best groups with H110 loads. I'm pretty sure everyone here knows you can't download H110...so when I suggest H110, I am talking loads near the top end of speed. My theory is that the boolit moves through the barrel faster, so there is less time for the gun to be influenced by my reaction to the recoil. It also could have something to do with the pressure curve of H110...I'm not smart enough to know how that works? ...And of course, with higher pressures, you should use a harder alloy, and likely a GC. Remember your boolit is going 100m, and a GC will likely eliminate any potential boolit deformation during launch. Boolit base deformation will add to any instability as it exits the muzzle, and that instability may show up at 100m.

I've had great success with 6.5 gr of Win 231 or 7.5 gr of Unique in .44 Special brass & 240-255 gr LSWC's...giving just over 950 fps in 4-5/8" bbl'd Ruger FTBH's.

In Magnum brass, increase each of those loads by 1/2 grain (0.5 gr) to achieve the same velocities.

These are plain base SWC's from Lyman (429421) and RCBS (44-250K) molds. I use ACWW alloy sweetened with just enough tin (<2%) to allow good mold fillout. I size them to 0.430" and use 50-50 lube. Accuracy runs less than 2" @ 25 yds from a rest. Lyman's excellent 429215 & 429244, both gas check designs by Thompson, do equally well, with or without the GC.

HTH's Rod

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe

I'm assuming this 100m Competition is off hand?


I gotta ask, why light loads?
Is there a reason? ...100m Competition Rules? ...arthritis in the wrist?


I don't know if there is anything more to it, then just the boolit going faster, but when I shot 100m, I got the best groups with H110 loads.

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Some interesting questions here.
Yes, the 100m Competition is off hand. But only 25% is shot at 100m. Chickens at 40m, Pigs at 50M, Turkeys at 75M and the Rams are 100m.

Light loads you ask?
Briefly, in my misspent twenties when I bought the Ruger SBH new, the first year of warnings on barrels BTW, I thought I needed to shoot the snot out of everything using dump-trucks loads of H-110/WW-296. I get how accurate some of those loads can be. I became pretty deadly with it.
So no, the match rules do not limit the loads and so far so good on the health of my wrists.
This match is actually a local cowboy lever-rifle silhouette match that allows a second gun be fired and you can compete in singleshot class or SA revolver class - all for fun. Mostly everyone cheers on and roots for anyone that does well. I shoot a Winchester 1892 in the lever class and I thought I would add a revolver to my fun and give it a try. The longest barrel handgun I own is the 7-1/2" 44Mag.
A better choice might be a 357 mag as the targets are easy to knock down, not requiring power. So, a smaller fast 357 with shorter barrel time might trump a heavy recoiling 44 or 45, but I just don't have one.

As a place to start, I want to try using the so called mid-range loads in the 44, even tho the longer barrel time of the slower bullets will require better follow through, lighter loads makes better sense to me. If I can find an accurate load with my available resources at 800 fps to 1000 max, I hope to score better than if having to fight the recoil of the supersonic T-Rex killers. ...it's a place to start.

Given the short range chickens and pigs, light accurate loads could be the way to go even if a 357 were the handgun being used.

Does that explain my thinking? Thanks for asking.

Quote:

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Does that explain my thinking?

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Yes it does.
especially the part where you mention your experience with H110.
Good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fast ronnie

As I recall, 8 grains of Unique behind a 240 grain lead semi-wad cutter worked for me. I don't have my data here for that load, tho.

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That load works for me as well with any of the following CB's: Lee 240gr. SWC-TL, Ly. #429421, RCBS clone of Ly. -421: Accurate out to 100 yd. from my 10.5" bbl'd. Ruger SBH.

My pet 44 Magnum load for my Rossi R92 - is 7 grains of Unique under a .431 Laser Cast Oregon Trail 240 grain SWC. It runs about 1150 fps in my 5 pound Rossi lever gun. Accurate and easy on my old shoulder.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chill Wills

Being mostly a rifle shooter I thought I would get some opinion on making ACCURATE light loads for the 44 Mag.
I would like to try to shoot our local 100meter Silhouette match with this ammo.
1970's era Ruger SBH, 0.432" cylinder by pin-gauge.
I intend to shoot bullets cast from RCBS 250K mold, or maybe the RCBS 250KT. I have access to both.

Primer and powder are the questions.
I am thinking 850 - 1000 FPS maximum

Red dot, Bullseye, Universal, Unique, Herco ???
Please tell me what I don't know about making an accurate revolver load.

-Chill

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High country weather being what it is, I am just now getting to shoot the loads I made up at the beginning of this month.
Based on your replies and the powder choices I have on hand, I loaded up sample loads using Bulls Eye, IMR-700X and Red Dot for starters. I have Unique, Herco, Universal and other powers to try as well should I need to.
All loads used the RCBS 250K cast bullet. In my aged 13 BHN alloy, that bullet weighs in at 269grains. It's kinda a chunk. I did not size them. I filled the one large lube groove by my super duper, not messy, no cutter, just push them out pan lube method.

I needed to do some snow removal work at the BPCR silhouette range for the upcoming match and I stayed over to test loads. It was above freezing with little wind.
Of the three powders tested today, BE, Red Dot and IMR 700X, the 700X was outstanding and the BE was right in there too. Maybe the next time it would turn out reversed.
The shocker, to me at least was how bad the Red Dot shot!
I was shooting the TQ-8 target, (8" black bull) at 50 meters and was getting <2" vertical with 6 shot groups using both BE and 700X. Also all three powders were loaded using between 6.2 and 7.2 grains of powder. With just a little variation on the target, all those loads shot very well! Well, not the Red Dot.

The Red Dot was another story. Wow! With everything else about the load the same, just a change to Red Dot, I could not keep the bullets on the paper. ???? I would not have guessed I could have created a load that bad if I set out to do so. It looked like a trap load at 50 meters. I will cross Red Dot of the list of 44 Mag powders.

That is all I have so far...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hickory

Anyone have a recipe for Trail Boss with a 250 gr boolit for around 800-900 fps?

Thanks

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6.5-7 grains of TB will do what you ask in the .44 Magnum.

Outpost75, do you find the Trail Boss loads shoots with the same accuracy that other powders do?


For an example, BE, Unique or WW-231?
I have not used it much in anything do to the less than best accuracy I have had with it in my limited tests.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chill Wills

Okay, thanks for the input. Based on the replies, unlike rifle I guess there aren't that many variables. Just load the different combinations and follow the best results.

I cast 59 sample bullet from the RCBS Keith mold in a scrap alloy that tests about 10-11 on the LBT hardness tester and does not age harden much more than a point in two weeks. They weigh 269 grains on average.. Kinda heavy for a 250 grn mold. They run 0.429" on one side of the parting line and 0.431 on the other.

Other than powder choice, charge weight, primer choice and maybe degree of crimp, I am not sure what else I can adjust that will produce an accurate load from just another load, by that, meaning the "the also ran's".

I am going with a few load levels of BE and RedDot to start with, Wolf LPP primers and, a light crimp. It will be a few days until I can get past the deep snow that just arrived to know much on the target.
I'm not sure the Chrono numbers mean much so I will leave that at home. The target will say.

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The RCBS Silhouette and Rifle moulds are spec with Linotype alloy that's why you get heavy bullets!
my mould also casts bullets in the 269 gr weight with softer alloys.

When I was working with this bullet I got my best accuracy with Bluedot powder tried several other powders, testing @ 50 yards / scoped in a SSP RPM XL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chill Wills

Outpost75, do you find the Trail Boss loads shoots with the same accuracy that other powders do? For an example, BE, Unique or WW-231?
I have not used it much in anything do to the less than best accuracy I have had with it in my limited tests.

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Trail Boss is OK and convenient to load, but more expensive and never gave the most accurate load in my experience. I got best accuracy in mild .44 Magnum, and standard-pressure .44-40 and .45 Colt loads with charges in the range of 6.0-7.0 grains Bullseye, TiteGroup or 452AA adjusting as needed to obtain about 900 fps. in a 5-1/2" revolver and remaining subsonic 1080+/-30 fps in a 20-inch lever-rifle with the particular bullet.

I run 200-230 grain bullets in the .44-40, 230-260 grains in the .44 Magnum and 260-290 grainers in the .45 Colt. My favorite bullets are all from Accurate Molds shown here:

Attachment 257592Attachment 257593Attachment 257594
Attachment 257595Attachment 257596Attachment 257597

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Originally Posted by bobthenailer

When I was working with this bullet I got my best accuracy with Bluedot powder tried several other powders, testing @ 50 yards / scoped in a SSP RPM XL

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I am looking for a subsonic less recoiling accurate load. I have part of a can of Blue Dot from long ago. Are your accurate Blue Dot loads near starting load level?
Yesterday's shot test put me on an optimistic track with Bull's Eye and especially IMR 700X. I would try the Blue Dot powder if it shows accuracy at the near starting level but I don't think I need to compete with loads at near maximum velocity.
The weather is looking good today again and I plan on trying a few more loads out to 50m and 100m and retesting yesterdays B E and 700X again. That poor performance yesterday with Red Dot has me puzzled. I will shoot the few remaining to get rid of them and confirm their lack of accuracy.

Agree with Outpost75....especially when using Bullseye. It's what I prefer with 700X next in 357, 41, 44 magnums and the 45's [ACP, AR, Schofield (aka 45 Government) and the 45 Colt.

Yes, those B E loads were very good from the start.

Here is an observation I made this morning in looking at the fired cases. Often heavy crimps are recommended when making revolver loads. Especially for slow, hard to ignite powders. Not just a light crimp to hold the bullet in place from recoil but a heavy crimp.

Many times I see that a heavy crimp is still there on the fired case. That says to me that neither pressure nor the bullet is opening up then very end of the case mouth.

I used light crimps with the B E and 700x loads. Yesterday's fired cases showed no residual crimp.
Question: So what good effect could that have on accuracy if the cast lead bullet is passing through the small bottle neck of the crimp on the way to large forcing cone and then the barrel?
Yesterdays good groups using B E and 700X were with very light crimp. Just enough to butt into the back edge of the front band.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Outpost75

6.5-7 grains of TB will do what you ask in the .44 Magnum.

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It all depends how deep you see your bullet. You’re better off measuring where your bullet seats and adjust your load from there. I’ve tried trail boss in my 77/44. It likes to be pushed faster to be more accurate. It works very well for 25 yard groups with my 45 colt vaquero at a minimum 5.2 grain charge going off where my bullet seats.