I have heard mixed things about where to seat gas checks. Looking for a consensus.
Edit - please vote in the poll
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I have heard mixed things about where to seat gas checks. Looking for a consensus.
Edit - please vote in the poll
If they are crimped on nice and tight there should be no trouble with them. At least I haven't had any......
Thanks for the input. I just started shooting cast rifle. So far I have been erring on the side of caution. Hoping there is a consensus on this one.
While I think it's best to not seat them below the neck, with some short necked calibers it's not really feasible (think 300 Savage or 300 Win Mag). Just make sure they are crimped on well as mentioned, and you should be fine. I've not had any problems either, but I don't really like to have the lubed portion of the boolit below the neck.
Never had a problem with .300 Savage or .308 when doing this.
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Do you mean lubed portion of the bullet?
Yes, that's what I meant...:killingpc
If your using Hornady gas checks or other crimp on checks, then you should not have any trouble provided the checks are seated well prior to sizing. I put the check on, then hold the bullet and tap the check with my hammer handle to seat it all the way. The check gets a nice firm crimp this way.
I haven't experimented with the old Lyman style checks yet but all I've read says you're not supposed to seat them below the case neck. I've also seen where folks glue those checks on with superglue or epoxy. I can't say how it works as I've not tried it yet. I have shot some bullets with the old checks though and didn't experience any problems. I didn't seat them below the case neck though.
I have some from sage outdoors. I seat them with a Lee push through sizer. I am going to take a pliers to them and see how easily the checks come off out of curiosity.
I have been having a few 2 hole shots with the 22TCM, they only way to seat them is below the neck. I have tried Sages aluminum only at this point. I think that it may be necessary to go to check with a crimp to it for these to stay on 100 percent. The other issue may be that the aluminum are so thin that at .225 I am not getting a good bite on the base of the bullet. Am I concerned about it... no. Do I like it... no! I have not found any checks in empty cases either. I think it is perfecting materials and workmanship. I seated with a lee push thru, I would rather seat them with a tail first approach as that is more likely to bottom them out and get the crimp always on the biggest part of the shank.
In my 270 loads, the gas check stays in the neck. However, in my 223 loads with 75 grain cast boolits, the check sits below the neck in order to seat to magazine length. Hasn't affected anything so far.
Do I seat bullets with the gas check below the case neck? Yes, occasionally.
Is it safe? I sure hope so.
..
I would have to seat the Lee 200 grain bore rider pretty far into the case in order to powder coat it. But with 30-06, or even 308, I am confident that I would have enough room. Using 2400 at least.
I will seat below the neck but I sure don't like it. Not because of the gas check but the lube. Always afraid the cartridges will get warm and melt the lube in the powder.
I still have a goodly supply of the old Lyman brass looking slip fit gas checks. I watch the depth on those. I have Hornady crimp on gas checks in .30 cal and .375 but .30-40 Krag. .30-06 and .375 H&H all have long enough necks that that it's not a problem.
I'm seating Gator checks slightly below the neck in 358 Win. No apparent issues.
Thanks for the responses everyone. Feel free to keep them coming. Looks like we have a consensus so far and it wasn't what I expected.
I voted to use a different bullet, not because it's unsafe or likely to be an issue. Just because I feel it could be a variable that can be avoided. I have done it before with no issues, just prefer not to. There may be a possiability to upset the base before the bullet's base is within the neck, then swage it back down to fit. This leading to pressure variations,leading to velocity variations and bullet variations. Remote possiability but, easily avoided, at least for my uses.
I have a couple boolits that seat below the neck. It is best to seat the boolit with the gc right at the end of the neck, though.
I've got a .308 round that sits the base about 0.10" inside the neck (about the size of the GC) and I get good accuracy with that round. I also load .357 sig and I know the gc is beyond the neck in that one.
Like several others, I've seated the GC below the neck but am not really comfortable with it.
Bill
I have a model 93 in 7 x 57 which I shoot using the old Rcbs 28 - 168 - FN boolit. The gas check is so far below the case neck when the boolit is touching the lands that it nearly blocks the primer orifice. Okay; maybe not that deep but it is a long slug. No problem that I am aware of.
Whenever I do my primary concern is powder sticking to the lube so I always use some dracon filler to stop powder migration.
I didn't answer your poll because the only two I gas check are 30-30 and 8mm Mauser - and the bullets I use do not require being seated below the bottom of the neck. It was interesting reading the responses though in case I should ever need to.
In my opinion there are some cases where seating the check below the neck are fine, such as seating the check, then powdercoating over the check and then sizing. But thats only if the check is held on tight and square. Alot of the designs i use for 7.62x39 seat the check so the top rim of the gas check is only engaged about .005 into the neck. So far i havent seen signs of an issue. However in standard lube i would try to avoid it for reasons already stated. Id be more curious to know how having a bullet using up case capacity and sticking into the case may change pressure and how the powder burns. Does it put pressure on the base of the bullet or does it cause the flame front to create a venturi when the bullet exits the neck. But this is all just an opinion, no facts or data to back any of it.
I figure that on a revolver, even though it is a straight case, the boolit has to go through the forward part of the chamber along with the blowby and then into the forcing cone, and they are still attached at the target, I think they should make it through a rifle case just fine. Never heard of it being a problem on revolvers.
I used to be a bit nervous when in had to seat checks below the neck .
Untill a few years ago a friend and I spent three or four weekends shooting into a big snow bank .
A few weeks after the snow melted I found about 200 of the cast bullets we had shot on the ground .
Every single one still had the gas check attached .
I don't give it a second thought now .
I load and shoot a lot of 300 Savage using the 311332. Gas check sits below neck for most cast bullets, very good accuracy with 18 grs 5744, under 2MOA at 200 yards, close to MOA at 100yds. Also same bullet in 308's with gas check just past neck to work through magazine of Savage 99, slightly better accuracy than my .300's. Using Alox-beeswax 50-50 or 45-45-10, no problem with ES or SD due to powder degradation. I do avoid very soft lubes with vaseline, other 'oily' stuff.
I seat boolits below the neck in my 358 Norma mag and it loves them. They are normally lubed and gas checked, loaded to around 2k fps. No leading and good accuracy--or at least for me. Around 1 1/2" @ 100 yds.
Well, I tried to pull a gas check off of a sized bullet. I couldn't do it. Not even with a pliers. So I think I will be fine.
I will not load a gas check below the cartridge case neck. People do it and have no trouble, but I see this as a huge potential safety problem. One gas check which becomes detached could cause a chamber obstruction with possible dire results. I see no reason to take such chances with reloading.
I seat them in the neck how else are they going to protect the lead from the heat etc?its easy enough with 223/308/3030 or am I just over thinking it?
Definitely overthinking it, the temperatures within the case are high but integrated over the time that it takes for the bullet to move out of the case the thermal flux isn't going to be anywhere near enough to melt the alloy. If it were you'd have a lot of guys here lamenting it.
Have you found any reports of such a thing ever happening?
I doubt a gas check would ever be able to act as a bore obstruction even if it beat all the odds and ended up partway down the barrel.
Really would have to be quite the sequence of events in order for it to end up there anyways, it would have to become detached, then end up behind the powder column such that it wouldn't be blown out of the case, nor would it remain in the case, but only partially make it down the bore? Sorry, I just don't see that happening.
There may be some rare exceptions, but I've yet to see any safety, accuracy, or leading problem with seating gas checked bullets below the case neck. I wouldn't use anything but the Hornady crimp on-type checks.
I check the tension on an installed gas check before I load it. My favorite rife is a .308 Vanguard, so I have to seat the gas check below the neck on several bullets.
One think to think about, when that powder ignites, it forces the gas check against the bullet until it is out of the barrel, with a lot of pressure. I would worry about a loosely fitting gas check that fell off in the cartridge before it was fired.
I also worry about powder being exposed to bullet lube. Any bullet that must be seated below the neck is powder coated or hi tek coated to prevent any powder reaction to bullet lube.
Mr. Peregrine- You are likely correct, and I do not mean to force others to load just as I do (this is America after all). I will continue to avoid loading gas checks outside of the cartridge neck however as I choose for my loading to remove any factors which I personally would worry about.
I rather like being called Mr.Peregrine. :)
I certainly understand where you're coming from, I prefer to keep the checks in the neck as well.
However if that's all I did i'd be seriously limited in the weight and style of bullets I could load in specific calibers, and it would preclude me from using some of my favorite loads that i'd rather miss.
But yes, do whatever works for you. However know that if you ever have the opportunity to deviate from that you likely can, my only real concern is lube and powder mingling hence only seating with the checks below the neck when I have a filler separating them.
There are times when it has to be done, 8mm Maximum in every 8mm I ever tried it in, just about everything in 7.5 Swiss K31. but have never had a problem.
I try not to but I have on occasion. I don't remember ever having a problem.
I also prefer not as many years ago I found a Lyman slip on GC still in the fired 308W case after testing some deep seated 311284s.........
Thus, if I do absolutely have to seat a GC so the top is below the shoulder/neck junction, I will only do so with tight, well crimped on Hornady GCs.......no old slip on Lyman's and no home made ones which don't crimp on either. I never got excellent accuracy seating any cast bullets below the case neck anyway.
You could drive a gas check half way down the barrel with a wooden rod and it would not cause a obstruction. While not on the base of a bullet it's to flimsy to hold any pressure.