Need some sabot knowledge

I've never shot them in anything so I have zero knowledge about them . Do they require any type of lube using real black powder ? Do they leave plastic fouling in the bore ? How many shots usually before the get hard loading or is that a non issue since their plastic ?
I was mentally toying with the idea of trying some with my Lee 200 gr fn 45 bullets just to see what happens in my shallow groove 56 twist flintlock , yeah I know it's a RB barrel but last year I shot some with a heavy double patch and they were stable at 50 yds accuracy was only so so thought maybe a sabot with that same short bullet may do better , not trying to replace a RB just want to try it out to see what happens accuracy wise .

I have used sabots in my 50 cal traditions inline, no lube, with 255 gr swc boolits, purchased. If there was any plastic fouling, I never noticed, on the other hand, I don't shoot it much. Accuracy was fine at 50 yds, but can't recall group size.

1:56 twist, dont even bother. Most likely has deep rifling as well.

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Originally Posted by FrontierMuzzleloading

1:56 twist, dont even bother. Most likely has deep rifling as well.

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Nope shallow sorry to disappoint you ,like I already said I've shot this same stubby 200 gr bullet in this barrel before with a double thickness patch and it does cut round holes so it does stabilize ok out to 50 yds Had a 45 cal with the same 56 twist ,barrel shot the 200 gr lee real bullet ok too .

Here's my experience using holy black and sabots. I could only get two, maybe three shots before it becomes very difficult to load again. It worked well, no plastic fouling that I could tell. Just a dirty bore.

I use black and a sabot in one of my Cabela's carbines. I keep a few patches of old T-shirt material in my shootin' bag. After I shoot, I pop one in my mouth to soak it. Run it down with a jag, and back out. Then proceed to load as normal.

My only advice would be to find some of the 'crush rib' sabots (I forgot who makes them). They loaded MUCH easier than any others. I still had to swab after three shots. Got a fourth stuck in a barrel once. That was "fun" :)

I can see why they are good for hunting, I just never used them again. I'd rather shoot a minie than a sabot.

I found these pretty accurate with any powder in my Green Mtn drop-in & original T/C side-lock barrels. (see LINK)
As far as repetitive loadings? Black Horn 209 powder seems foul less which allows a few extra shots than all the {loose} B/P substitutes I've tried.

Although I consider myself to be a Traditionalist shooter so I'm hesitant to shoot anything but patch ball over a charge of 2-FFg Gorex or my {screened} home-made.

https://www.prbullet.com/

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Originally Posted by ShooterAZ

Here's my experience using holy black and sabots. I could only get two, maybe three shots before it becomes very difficult to load again. It worked well, no plastic fouling that I could tell. Just a dirty bore.

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same here and I shoot 90 grains of 2f for a hunting load

Take that bullet with the sabot and rub the sabot on the side of your nose.Your body oils will let you load that bullet much easier.

While a sabot will leave some plastic in the bore the limiting factor in repeated loadings is powder fouling. I have to swab every 3-5 shots. When you clean (inline) using imitation or ffg Goex you can see the plastic fowling as light streaks but it is minor and isn't an issue when shooting.

Thanks all seems like it's worth a shot or two to see what happens sabots are fairly cheap so no harm no foul if it's a bust . I'll post my findings but with this weather it may not be till spring :(

Hello RU shooter,

I have been using the MPM Orange HPH Sabots with my RCBS 45-300 sized at .457" in my Lyman Great Plains Hunter (1-32" twist). I've been using Triple Seven and haven't seen any issues but I'm not shooting 50 rounds at a time. My son also shoots this in my old Thompson Center Hawken (1/48" twist) with good results. We have sized some down to .453 & shot with Harvester H5045SB with good result also.

Good luck, AntiqueSledMan.

AntiqueSledMan has you pointed in the right direction. Getting the boolit sabot barrel fit right is of utmost importance and takes a lot of messing around. Harvester is the company that makes the Black crush rib sabot (458 boolit)mentioned earlier, they also make a red crush rib for 452. The mmp orange is also a good choice for 458 but is slightly more fragile IMO.

Now is actually a good time to go work up a load because you can find the spent sabots on the snow. They ideally need to retain all petals and exhibit a nicely flared base cup to indicate good bore seal.

I used to lube my sabots until I read the package which specifically said "NO LUBE". Lube seemed to make the plastic fouling worse. They are made to function w/o lube. A good normal cleaning has always worked for me. Ed's Red does a fine job as the acetone gets under the fouling and removes the faint plastic fouling easy. Any regular cleaning should work, too.

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Originally Posted by Ateam

AntiqueSledMan has you pointed in the right direction. Getting the boolit sabot barrel fit right is of utmost importance and takes a lot of messing around. Harvester is the company that makes the Black crush rib sabot (458 boolit)mentioned earlier, they also make a red crush rib for 452. The mmp orange is also a good choice for 458 but is slightly more fragile IMO.

Now is actually a good time to go work up a load because you can find the spent sabots on the snow. They ideally need to retain all petals and exhibit a nicely flared base cup to indicate good bore seal.

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Thank you , been doing some reading on the different types you mentioned , I'm a little confused though . My barrel is .501 bore and .513 ish groove , do the sabots ride the bore dia like the nose on a rifle bullet or just the base expand to fill the groove and seal ? Or do the petals need to be engraved or what exactly am I looking for size wise ?

Basically the solid portion of the sabot is what gets engraved.
There's very slightly thicker and thinner sabots which also applies to the petals.
The petals can also slightly bulge depending on the diameter of the bullets, but IMO the engraving of petals occurs mostly during loading.
Even Harvester makes sabots that are not ribbed and [petals] would be slightly thicker, with the thinner sabots being made for tight or narrower bores to make loading easier.

I think that the sabot gets engraved during loading and during firing, just moreso during the latter.
Of course the base is designed to expand.
Most barrels designed to shoot sabots don't have such deep grooves.
But perhaps the thinner sabots have more flexible cups at their base or will expand more.
The thinner petals would certainly be more flexible and would be engraved less upon loading, which creates less resistance
just as ribbed & thin petal sabots are designed & intended.
But that may all contribute to why some sabots shoot slightly better from some guns than others.
Better usually means more consistent.
But that doesn't mean that there's a huge difference unless your land diameter is not common.
Your groove diameter may result in some extra hot gases blowing by and some additional minor erosion of the plastic.

If you're more concerned about loading difficulty then use a thin or ribbed sabot.
If you're more concerned about plugging up the blow by, then use a standard sabot.

Some folks use thinner or ribbed sabots because their bullets aren't always pre-sized and they don't want to swab every shot, or every other shot.

In the final analysis, .501 does not seem like an exceptionally tight bore size, unless you're loading a .453 bullet or such.
Sabots can be just like different patch thicknesses, but to a lesser degree.
To make an analogy, like the difference between a .015 patch and a .014 patch.
[The MMP 3-petalEZ would be like using a .013 or .012 patch - for tight TC Encore bores]
How much difference it makes could also depend on the bullet diameter and bore diameter, but now there's a sabot thickness instead of a patch thickness to consider.
Some people start off thicker while others start off thinner.
Might as well flip a coin, heads or tails? :grin:

I'm curious, does your bore have round bottom rifling, or a lot of grooves?

I hesitate to tell you definitively that one thing works and another does not. I find that more sabot engagement, petals and base, tends to be better than less. Though you will likely need to try a few combinations to see what works for you. I would think that the black crush rib would work for your application though may be a little tight (assuming a 458 boolit). If you have the ability to downsize a thou or so that might be the ticket. Another thing to consider is sabot drilling, unlikely to occur at BP velocities, but is a bad thing none the less. This means obviously no lube on the boolit and maybe a knurl between some files to make it grip and spin with the sabot. I have also found that "indexing" the sabot to have equal land engagement on each petal decreases flyers.

PM me and I will send you a sample pack of the sabots I have here so you can try fit before going whole hog.

Thanks for taking the time to explain that Articap . It's regular square bottom rifling the gun is a early Dixie southern rifle 7/8" barrel .

Mr Ateam I sent you a PM thank you for the offer

There is one very important thing to remember when shooting sabot's with any gun other than an inline with removable breech plug. It is nearly impossible to pull a jacketed bullet. If you stick to flat faced lead bullets, you will be ok. Forgetting to pour powder, then sending down a Hornady SST is not a good scenario.

Here's an short interesting article with a few useful facts:

How to Select the Right Sabot --->>> https://www.chuckhawks.com/select_right_sabot.htm

"Barnes MZ-Expanders come automatically with MMP 50 / 452 Black HPH12 long-petaled sabots in 250 and 300 grain. Here again, while as supplied may load and shoot beautifully for you, if they load unbearably tight, all is not lost. Just substitute MMP 50 / 452 Black HPH-24 sabots. The HPH-24 Black sabots give you a smaller assembled OD of about .002 inches less than the HPH-12 sabots, and that is a whole heck of a lot to a sabot. The example MMP gives is with a .452" bullet: HPH-12 = .507 - .508" assembled OD, HPH-24 = .505 - .506" assembled outside diameter.

Though I'm not a fan of the Hornady SST muzzleloading bullet (Thompson "Shockwave"), if you are shooting the 250 SST or 300 SST, the HPH-12 is generally the choice. If it loads too tight the HPH-24 can solve your problems."

Then the 3petalEZ sabot from MMP is even slightly smaller in diameter.
Having only 3 petals makes it possible to make the petals thinner than having more petals.

But most inline rifles have very shallow rifling without much extra room to hold left over powder fouling.

Here's 2 photo range reports of someone shooting a new Knight Ultra Light Nitride rifle with MMP HPH-24 sabots and 120 grains of Black Horn 209 powder.

2nd report:--->>> https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/bla...ml#post4350495

1st report:--->>> https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/bla...t-nitride.html