Zinc in range scrap

So I bought 1000lbs of range scrap from the local range about a year ago and finally got around to cleaning it. I normally use an old Lyman Big Dipper pot for this but decided to stop by the local Good will and pick up a used stainless steel pot. Found a pot, positioned my weed burner under it and got to work. Everything seemed to be working fine until I fluxed the cleaned lead with paraffin candle wax. The lead got slushy on top but I poured ingots anyway. Today I tried to cast with that lead and no go. Couldn’t get a good boolit to save my life. In fact it plunged the spout on my bottom pour pot. So where could I have gotten the zinc from? Bullet jackets? Any ideas would be great. Thanks

Folks cast zinc bullets. Not lots of folks, but it only takes one.

You can flux out the zinc but it's a nasty process.
I would go through some of the unsmelted range scraps, the zinc would be nonjacketed boolits that you can't cut with side cutters

probably not zinc. zinc looks like oatmeal on top of your lead.

Some newer Russian steel-cased ammo has solid zinc bullets. Wolf brand uses zinc for pistol and rifle calibers.

If you are smelting at reasonably low temperature, Zn will float on top of the lead; Zn wheel weights surely do. You might want to test your lead with acid (pool acid, toilet bowl cleaner) to see if it bubbles. It might not be actually Zn.

Wayne

I’ll try and test for zinc. Don’t think I want to go through trying to flux with sulfur. So if it’s zinc I’ll give it away to someone who wants to mess with it.

Don't throw in the towel yet. 1000 pounds is a lot of lead.
1) get a good lead thermometer for your smelting pot
2) get a source of heat that you can control accurately
3) fill 2-3 inches of the pot with pure lead then finish filling with the range scrap slowly bring up the heat until it reads no more than 675°
4) maintain that temperature when you flux with pine sawdust and wax skimming off the rest [keep a close eye on the temperature]

pure Lead 327.46°C 621.43°F
pure Zinc 419.53 °C 787.15 °F
Zinc alloys have a melting range of about 380-390°C (~ 725°F)

or make it all into ingots, sell the copper jackets and sell the ingots to someone for ballast or fishing weights

IF you are 100% sure there is zinc in it you could flux with copper sulfate (zep root kill) remove zinc and add copper to the alloy making it more elastomeric.
You don't want to breathe the smoke!! if you do you'll only do it once if you're not wearing a good chemical mask.
I have a fan blowing and make sure I stay upwind.

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Originally Posted by Dpmsman

So I bought 1000lbs of range scrap from the local range about a year ago and finally got around to cleaning it. I normally use an old Lyman Big Dipper pot for this but decided to stop by the local Good will and pick up a used stainless steel pot. Found a pot, positioned my weed burner under it and got to work. Everything seemed to be working fine until I fluxed the cleaned lead with paraffin candle wax. The lead got slushy on top but I poured ingots anyway. Today I tried to cast with that lead and no go. Couldn’t get a good boolit to save my life. In fact it plunged the spout on my bottom pour pot. So where could I have gotten the zinc from? Bullet jackets? Any ideas would be great. Thanks

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Do you have a thermometer?
It'd be nice to know what Temp your alloy was when problems arose.
Because you can cast with alloy with small amounts of zinc, I have done it, you just need to turn up the heat.
https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.p...let-alloy.589/

After this you should do what I do...every piece of metal that goes in my pot gets tested with side cutters. It's the only way I can make sure that only lead gets in there.
The news that zinc bullets are now being loaded is a real pain...but that means that testing everything is now required even when dealing with range scrap.
Gary

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Originally Posted by gwpercle

After this you should do what I do...every piece of metal that goes in my pot gets tested with side cutters. It's the only way I can make sure that only lead gets in there.
The news that zinc bullets are now being loaded is a real pain...but that means that testing everything is now required even when dealing with range scrap.
Gary

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That seems a bit excessive, can't you usually instantly tell which is which upon picking up a wheel weight? The zinc do look and feel quite a bit different, surely you only test if it's corroded enough or and odd type and you're in doubt.
A couple of zinc weights won't ruin a whole pot, even if you don't get them while you're skimming clips. Which I have once or twice, they do take appreciably higher temps to melt.

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Originally Posted by Conditor22

Don't throw in the towel yet. 1000 pounds is a lot of lead.
1) get a good lead thermometer for your smelting pot
2) get a source of heat that you can control accurately
3) fill 2-3 inches of the pot with pure lead then finish filling with the range scrap slowly bring up the heat until it reads no more than 675°
4) maintain that temperature when you flux with pine sawdust and wax skimming off the rest [keep a close eye on the temperature]

pure Lead 327.46°C 621.43°F
pure Zinc 419.53 °C 787.15 °F
Zinc alloys have a melting range of about 380-390°C (~ 725°F)

or make it all into ingots, sell the copper jackets and sell the ingots to someone for ballast or fishing weights

IF you are 100% sure there is zinc in it you could flux with copper sulfate (zep root kill) remove zinc and add copper to the alloy making it more elastomeric.
You don't want to breathe the smoke!! if you do you'll only do it once if you're not wearing a good chemical mask.
I have a fan blowing and make sure I stay upwind.

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I wasn't planning on getting rid of the whole 1000lbs just the lead I contaminated. Maybe 30lbs tops. I planned to do as you suggested and keep the temp down as I clean the scrap.

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Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe

Do you have a thermometer?
It'd be nice to know what Temp your alloy was when problems arose.
Because you can cast with alloy with small amounts of zinc, I have done it, you just need to turn up the heat.
https://www.artfulbullet.com/index.p...let-alloy.589/

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I do have a thermometer but was not using it at the time. My Lee 4–20 part was at Maxx. I could flux with wax and it would start to alloy but once the wax burned off it was back to slush

As this was range scrap, then there shouldn't be much if any zinc present. I'm wondering if you have high antimony scrap? Time to find an XRF "gun".

Are you sure it isn’t the cold air forming a “skin” of antimony? I smelted about 50-60 pounds of WW last week and had a thick layer on top. I tested the dross with acid and it didn’t bubble. I remelted it with pure lead a few days later, when it was much warmer. The “skin” went away as soon as I fluxed it. It made some good boolits.

I always flux with both pine sawdust and wax, I found they each work a little differently and combines do a much better job.

OP I didn't see where you contaminated the alloy.

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Originally Posted by Dpmsman

I do have a thermometer but was not using it at the time. My Lee 4–20 part was at Maxx. I could flux with wax and it would start to alloy but once the wax burned off it was back to slush

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You really need to use a thermometer, running any lead pot at Maxx you could be over 1000 deg F and this would over heat any mold and not cast usable bullets.

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Originally Posted by Bazoo

Folks cast zinc bullets. Not lots of folks, but it only takes one.

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A small amount of zinc isn't going to ruin a large amount of alloy, in my exp. Who knows what else was in 1000# of scrap. Heat up & flux it with sawdust, until you see less dross on top.

Not sure when I’ll get back to this but will post results.

Melt the lead to a temperature of 600f. Scrape of any mushy stuff that forms. Cycle the temp and bring back to 600 and scrape off the surface each time until the surface remains clean. Your alloy should then be castable.

If your scrap is from an indoor range you could just have a large amount of copper in the mix. That casts at a higher then normal temp.

I would save the dross from the skimming because you might be skimming off antimony. Just because the casting furnace is set to the maximum setting does not mean you do not have a thermostat or heating element starting to fail. Get the thermometer to know what you have. Higher percentages of antimony will need more heat to combine and remain in solution.

You are not describing foamy, frothy or the ash like material we find in casting occlusions in contaminated metal. You say slushy like it is failing to be fluid like for casting. Perhaps it is just the way you are describing what you are seeing.

It might also be that you did not do a good job when performing the initial cleaning. I know that I have had trouble because I was in a hurry and did not follow the best practices.

There are a lot of factory rounds with zinc core jacketed bullets. It's going to make our hobby harder

I have had pretty good results putting fairly large amounts of sawdust in pot before heat is turned on and as the temp on melt comes up the impurities form crumbly substance on tho of melt.

There seems to be a lot of zinc or other contaminates in range scrap now and a lot comes from jacketed bullets. I still throw in a spoon of sulphur and stir if I find zinc, and then throw out the skimmed oatmeal from the top. I have also found reclaimed shot to be hard to cast with till its added to pure lead or wheel weights. There are many great posts on how to clean up suspect lead and I have used them with excellent results. Regards Stephen

I think there are some bullets sold with zinc cores. Is nothing sacred anymore?

This is the first time I have heard about factory reloads containing zinc. I’d really like to see a list of all know brands that use it. That way I can maybe spot, if someone at my range where I collect, is using it. So far I haven’t had any signs of it when melting down for ingots.

I think it’s just Russian steel cased pistol ammo right now. Tulammo 9mm, .40, and maybe .45. I found a zinc .40 in my brass last year. Here’s a photo from a seller:
https://static1-bulkammocom.netdna-s...e39235_3_2.jpg

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Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE

This is the first time I have heard about factory reloads containing zinc. I’d really like to see a list of all know brands that use it. That way I can maybe spot, if someone at my range where I collect, is using it. So far I haven’t had any signs of it when melting down for ingots.

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I realize you asked about factory ammo, I haven't seen any, until they were mentioned in this thread.
...But I did notice, about a year ago, Midsouth started offering Zinc bullets to reloaders.
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...llet-100-count

I really do not sort my w-w. I just throw every thing in pot and let it melt. Do try to pick out valve stems and other rubber and plastic always miss some after cleaning out clips and scrap make ingots. Then remelt with large amount of sawdust and skim off the crud and then cast bullets come out filled out and consistent in weight shoot well to. I just could not imagine going through 5 or 10 gallons of w-w.

I bought truck ‘ww’ lead from a guy on ebay and 3/4 was zinc ww. I thought that something was off as large as the box was it should have weighed a ton. He acted like he wasn’t aware that they were zinc and didn’t want them back but did refund some of my money. But I’m curious what does a zinc bullet look like? Same as a flattened out lead bullet when it hits steel? Is zinc more or less valuable than scrap steel or lead?

Scrap zinc is worth a lot less than lead, but a little more than steel. The bullet flattens out when it hits, but not as much as lead. It looks silvery, but it’s not as shiny or as soft as lead.