New powders vs the older

I've never been one to do lot of experimenting when it comes to the powders I buy and try . I was surfing the web and just realized ther are sooooo many new or new in name only powders for rifle and pistol these days . I normally use the what I have always used in pistol and rifle namely Bullseye ,w231 ,unique , 2400 , AA2230 , imr 4895 and 3031,H335 that covers well what I load for with cast an jacketed . Now are there any of these newer powders similar in burn rate that are simply better than the classics I use now . I ask cuz I'm actually starting to run low on a few and need replaced is there a better replacement out there for any of these . I load for 38/357 , 45 acp , 32 spl and 35 Rem now a few othersfor family but nothing magnum or extreme

I am still trying to shoot up powder I bought in the 70s.
Some marked DuPont and some Hercules.....dale

IMR Target is much cleaner than older powders. Seems to produce more consistent velocities for me, too.
CFE Pistol is not one I've tried but my boss tried it and raves about the cleanliness, low flash and extremely good velocity figures. He gave me his Power Pistol saying that CFE Pistol gives him the velocity without the fireball.

I'll try out the newer powders but I have a bunch of the older stuff and won't abandon them yet.

As I understand it most of these newer powders are made by a different process than older standbys. I'm taking a "wait and see" position on their shelf life before I start replacing old favorites with the new stuff. Some of our younger friends weren't alive when the ATF tried mandating powder and primers have a very short shelf life. Did the component makers succeed in doing so? We'll see!

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Originally Posted by Houndog

As I understand it most of these newer powders are made by a different process than older standbys. I'm taking a "wait and see" position on their shelf life before I start replacing old favorites with the new stuff. Some of our younger friends weren't alive when the ATF tried mandating powder and primers have a very short shelf life. Did the component makers succeed in doing so? We'll see!

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Good call .

asking about replacements for 8 different powders in one question.
The answer is quite the complicated paradox...because it's all opinion, like chevy verses ford...well not exactly like that, more like Chevy verse Everything new on the market...and then multiplied to the 8th power.
with that said,
If I were to want to investigate this to a level of depth as implied in the question , I'd start by looking for books about powder, like "Propellant Profiles".

As to the new powders I am waiting to see what their shelf life is before spending my few spare dollars on the new stuff

When I first started reading, back in the eighties, there was powders. You had decisions to make but nooo where’s near as many powders as there are today. I got out of shooting and reloading for about twenty years, long story,. When I got back into it again a few years back, the first thing I did was pick up a new manual or three. Opened it up to check out loads and holy $&&$! What powders do I use! Here’s the conclusion I came to. First off let me say I’ve never been one to run out a get the Latest and greatest new fangled anything. I like to wait and see what kind of problems what ever it will have when it initially hits the market. Now when it comes to powder I know for a fact that some powders are left in your powder measure with a clear plastic hopper, for a relatively short period of time , can turn back clear plastic hopper cloudy. That’s a chemical reaction! What else is happening? If a powder has only been around for 5 years what happens to in eight years? Does it start to break down? Does the burn rate change? Does it become unstable? If I take a round I loaded a few years back, put a round in my gun and fire it, dose the pressure increase to a point of being dangerous? I certainly don’t know. We all know that there are certain powders that have been around since Moses was re-loading ( that would be John Moses Browning not the other famous Moses) that are still available today virtually unchanged. That’s the powders I tend to select and use. Especially if there’s a chance that those rounds won’t be fired immediately. When I say immediately I mean within about a year. Let’s not forget that everything manufactured today has a planned obsolescence.

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Originally Posted by Houndog

As I understand it most of these newer powders are made by a different process than older standbys. I'm taking a "wait and see" position on their shelf life before I start replacing old favorites with the new stuff. Some of our younger friends weren't alive when the ATF tried mandating powder and primers have a very short shelf life. Did the component makers succeed in doing so? We'll see!

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You willing to wait 20yrs? How about stockpiling some old favorites and using the new ones in the mean time for testing to work up loads.

I have just started testing shooters world powder. What I have found is Precision rifle will replace varget in my 30-30, 7mm-08, 308, and 30-06. It will also replace imr 4895 in the same calibers. Found out today that clean shot will replace titegroup in 357 mag rifle loads. The price of powders has gone up, but shooters world prices have stayed the same low price. Don't know how long that will last.

The great part about all these new powders (such as CFE Pistol) is that you can tweak your loads more. I had a load for one cast bullet that worked with 700x, but I couldn't get as much velocity as I wanted before I went past the point of best accuracy (I assume I was hitting the bullet with too fast of a pressure peak for its hardness). Went to HP-38 which is slightly lower burn rate and got a little higher in velocity with good accuracy. Went to to CFE Pistol, which is slightly slower burning relative to HP-38 and got even better accuracy at the velocity I wanted. I don't have the equipment to measure the pressure trace in the chamber, but I suspect by tweaking my powder choice I am giving the bullet a slightly more gentle push that lasts a little longer, which lets me get higher velocity without bullet damage.

The European Union mandated the removal of a certain chemical in smokeless powder a few years ago, since then powder has a completely different smell when fired.

As far as quality goes, powder is far far dirtier then it was 20-30 years ago. Especially with rim fire. Semi Autos that used to need only 2-300 rounds before needing a cleaning, using the same brand and flavor of currently produced ammo now need a cleaning in as little as 100 rounds.

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Originally Posted by jonp

You willing to wait 20yrs? How about stockpiling some old favorites and using the new ones in the mean time for testing to work up loads.

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Makes sense to me. Trying something new can be interesting, might yield better results and it isn't like the old stand-by powders you stocked up on to avoid the next shortage will be going bad in the meantime. If you are just now getting around to building up a bit of a component buffer I would focus on a bit more on known good.

Biggest problem I see is you try something new and like it, blows holes in the often stated desire to reduce the stock to just a few powders that cover the most needs and are purchased in quantity. Really having a few pounds of 4 different powders that will load the same caliber gets to be more trouble than it is worth at some point. OP has 8 powders for 5 calibers, I'm guessing there might be some calibers not listed. Myself I would rather have 5# of same powder for a caliber than multiple different powders for same caliber. Shortage sometimes forced buying what was available that would work but not desirable to my thinking.

So yeah buy a pound, if you like it, set aside your tried and true and use the new stuff. Knowing you can always fall back on the stock of known good you have.

Nothing wrong with the old standards, cfe stuff seams good so far. LeverE is great for some uses.

I tried Tite Group a while back and after 3 days in a plastic hopper it melted into the plastic I do not trust a powder that does that.

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Originally Posted by Shingle

I tried Tite Group a while back and after 3 days in a plastic hopper it melted into the plastic I do not trust a powder that does that.

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High nitro content. Condensed powder as in a little goes a long way. This difference in potency makes it more inclined to melt into a hopper if left in it. Also reported to "melt" into powder coat bullet bases a little bit. Doesn't seem to effect functionality. I do store TG loads with PC projectiles up to avoid the powder just sitting on the bullet. So far all have functioned correctly. I suspect none are over 2 years old though.

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Originally Posted by Shingle

I tried Tite Group a while back and after 3 days in a plastic hopper it melted into the plastic I do not trust a powder that does that.

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Well, for one thing, you won't be shooting it in a plastic case. I have never seen any problem in brass or other metal cases.

I bought a 40 lb keg of Surplus 4831 in 1960. Still using it. Smells fine and results match book. (35 cents/pound)

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Originally Posted by 6.5 CM

I bought a 40 lb keg of Surplus 4831 in 1960. Still using it. Smells fine and results match book. (35 cents/pound)

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That's going to be a hard price to match when you finally need more .

Yes, but it may outlive me !

I have Alcan powder bought in the 70's when a store sold discontinued powders. They were old then older now and still good 40+ years.
A keg of Dupont 4895 purchased in 1987 went bad long before I could shoot it up, while I still was using Mil. Surp. 4831 made in WWII.
I pulled down some WWII era 8MM ammo in 1990 to get the bullets because it would not fire, the powder had degraded and corroded the case and bullet bases.
It all depends on the QUALITY and CARE in manufacturing and the amount and type of preservatives.
Storage counts and cool is better, but all of the above powders were stored together after I bought them.
I do not know how to determine which current powders are going to last. Does anyone have an idea?