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Loading SHORT shells. where do I find the instructions for this? Seems to me that this sort of information should be on the NET , somewhere. Shells 1 3/4", 2", 2 1/4", 2 1/2" should be doable.
I've seen ads for Herters 2" shellsbut no prices nor addresses.
WHAT GIVES?
Pepe Ray
I looked for the very same thing not long ago.
Someone might jump in and berate me for saying but I’ve always felt like shotshell loading had a lot of smoke and mirrors to deal with. It’s very frustrating for anyone not content with the standard old fodder printed in a book.
Best of luck and be a gentleman....post your findings please.
I’ve always wanted to do a 1 3/4 or 2 inch shell with a single round ball using something like BPI stump or brush wads. The average tube fed would get at least another couple rounds out of it. Provided they cycle smoothly.
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Bro...info/00XSHORT/
https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...nch-shotshell/
Places for you to start looking....
I've loaded short 12 gauge shells and I just experimented with the load data. I saw some Aguila short shell componants outside the hull and can tell you the wad is very abbreviated. The power piston on the bottom of them appears (from the pictures) to be only like 3/16 inch thick or so.
I've also heard that you have to follow the exact load data for shotshell loading, but then read an article by a fellow at a ballistics lab that tried to blow up a Remington Model 870 12 gauge and he had it set up for pressure testing. It wasn't until he reached 55,000 psi that it let go. His opinion was not following the exact data won't blow your shotgun up, but will increase pressure.
Here are some pics of my 12 gauge short shells. Don't ask what powder and wads as I was just fooling around. Yes I did shoot them and they were mild. I can tell you the hulls were Rio's.
Attachment 213804
WELL!!! Nines & Twos, how's THAT for a response!!?
THANK YOU!!
I shouldn't be surprised tho, we ALWAYS get the best membership replies. Now, to get my head on straight and get to work to assemble the componants and begin my experimenting.
Thanks again guys,
Pepe Ray
I think I remember that BPI has a brochure on short shells. I also think I remember that Winchester published a warning about using them in certain models-1300 perhaps? I find that I think I remember a lot of things lately.
Some shotguns they cycle very good and other's they don't. I'm using a CZ tactical 12 gauge and you cycle them firmly they work just great. Don't know if they have enough oomph to operate semi-autos.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Yanda
I am working on a test gun to determine pressures for this very thing but I am a long ways from doing any testing. have done some light loads and they worked fine in single shot and pump.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/shotgun
has data for 2 ans 2 10/2 inch shells
Hey Pepe Ray
This is something I do on a regular basis. My expertise is limited to only 2" shells in 12 gauge and assorted lengths in 410 bore. In 12 gauge, only Winchester AA shells (that's what I have) are used. 410 bore has me doing 2" shells in anything picked up. When I first started doing this I was very meticulous in hull prep. Not so much anymore. 12 gauge 2" shells are run through a slightly modified MEC 8567 Grabber press. 410 bore 2" shells are run through a MEC Sizemaster. Using standard wads, cut the wad petal length down for proper fit. Both powder and shot amounts must be adjusted down accordingly. Some years back I purchased B&B powder/shot bars for each press, this allows me to use MEC powder bushings for both powder and shot.
Attachment 213824 Attachment 213825 Attachment 213827
In a 3 1/2" chamber, the short 12s patterned not so good. They did well in 2 3/4" chambers but won't cycle a Wingmaster. In my pump guns they must be cycled fast to avoid falling nose down through the feed slide. With the shortys, trap was challenging but skeet and sporting clays my scores only fell slightly. We now live within town limits and the short 410s disturb no one but the stray varmits. Squirrels fall dead under 100 feet. Even larger unwanted pests get taken out sometimes at 50 ft.. Hands down the 410 is my favorite to fool with. Punkin ball and 9mm projectiles turn a smooth bore into a bunny gun. Developed for boys wanting to hunt with Dad and Granpa. We have used hot glue to seal loaded hulls. The best is standard MEC crimps. A roll crimper is used occasionally. I no longer heat and pre crimp freshly cut off hulls. Just load and crimp.
Attachment 213834 Attachment 213835 Attachment 213836
Shot charge drops to 5/8 of an ounce in 12ga and 96 gr in 410 bore. Great savings on shot. Good luck finding containers to neatly and oderly hold any quantity of shells. Aside from my successful information, there is an even more vast accounting of what I did to screw up a 410 loading. If you need or want particulars I am here.
Roy
My 12 ga shorts are just hair over 1 1/2 inch roll crimped. Can't remember the unloaded length. I do know I used old hulls that the fold crimp was shot, thus a way to recycle old hulls.
I’ve made a bunch of different length short shells. Mostly 12 gauge. 2 1/4” on down. A Winchester red wad usually works well. Or cut out compression sections and add felt wads as needed for stack up of various payloads. Roll crimps are usually used but ya can adjust or shim up a machine for fold crimps. And clear hulls are sure nice to identify at a glance and or admire your work. Some data is out there as previously posted but logically keep the loads on the lighter side.
Good luck
I load some 1 3/4" and 2" 12 ga shell with 1/2 oz shot and I roll and fold them. It works for me .I found that the 2" will cycle in a pump with a bottom feed but the other one will not. But work in the CZ over and under.
My little bit of messing around with them, I got them to cycle Stoger 2000 semi auto (Bellini M2 stepchild), but had problems with double feeds. I want to say it was a 7/8 @ 1200fps.
A friend of ours played around with this idea 25 years ago. He used worn crimp AA 12 gauge target hulls, shortened them to 2", and then worked up suitable loads with Bullseye, Red Dot, and 700X in 3/4 oz, 13/16 oz, and 7/8th oz. He found that the Winchester "red" wad (a short wad normally used with heavy charges of shot for hunting) worked perfectly. They made great low recoil / low cost practice loads for Skeet and 16 yard Trap singles. They were very low recoil so they made great training shells for novice shooters, especially women and kids. I'm sure that down in my reloading shop I have a clay target carton full of pre-cut 2" hulls that he gifted me along with a large number of the Winchester red wads to load them. (Another back-burner project that I'll get to "someday" ...)
Awesome!
Caution: Hodgdon does not supply any information on crimp style for short shells. As with all Hodgdon data, the assumption is Fold Crimp which creates a substantially shorter loaded length than roll crimped hulls of the same unloaded length. Indeed, this crimp conundrum is likely why Hodgdon 2.5" load data often uses short AA12R wads.Quote:
Originally Posted by dsh1106
I loaded some 1 1/2 inch 20ga shells years ago to use in a 22-20ga Savage over and under. Worked great for use as a snake load. They were rolled crimped and used paper wads. I may have the load data somewhere. The shells and gun are gone.
I would like to see your data. That is the next thing I like to do is make short 20 ga shells.Quote:
Originally Posted by besk
I understand these have the advantage of increasing the number of rounds in a tube magazine if they do not compromise reliability....but why use them in a break open gun? They do not offer any advantages that I can see. Plus they are a pain to reload.
They are good for teach someone that have not shot a shotgun before and get them use to the gun and also good for light loads beside extend the use of the hulls when you can not load them like normal.Also because you can do it.
Trapper,
They have no impact on recoil. Try a 7/8 oz wad in a normal hull. Without reducing payload and/or velocity, recoil is unaffected. For CAS I use the 7/8 wad and reduce velocity to 1000 fps.
Premium hulls are a nickel, and last quite a few reloads. Hulls like Top Guns or Estates are free. They are easy to load so is it worth the hassle?
“Because you can do it”, makes the most sense.
IIRC BPI data stops at 2" shells.
Thank you for letting me know that will help.Quote:
Originally Posted by dverna
Some see being able to carry a few more rounds for the same amount of space as an advantage. A reduced load of shot also makes them a bit of an economy load.Quote:
Originally Posted by dverna
I loaded up a few of these just using a different wad, they were a lot of fun but the initial trimming of the hull is a bit time consuming. If I were going to load up a bunch of these I would make a trimmer jig like what Ballistic Products sells.