In Luke 8:26-39 there is a story of Jesus dealings with these entities. Did these entities take people against their will, where they invited in, or where they disease states and not demons at all?
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In Luke 8:26-39 there is a story of Jesus dealings with these entities. Did these entities take people against their will, where they invited in, or where they disease states and not demons at all?
You have opened a can of worms. As a former missionary to South America, I can tell you that demons do exist and can posses persons. How, why and under what circumstances is a subject of great debate and many opinions, some of which are contradictory.
The subject is found very interesting by many and they go to seed on the matter. In the end far more people are demon obsessed than there people who are demon possessed.
Further, the affiant sayeth not.
When a nation abandons God it only leaves room for the Devil to enter and fill the void.
I believe that most recent mass murder in Las Vegas is an example of how the Devil can use a person to do evil for him.
Remember that our rights are God given and who but the Devil and his minions are all too willing to take them away from us.
Jesus spoke about demons, spoke to demons and they spoke to him. So unless he was putting on a show, demons are real.
The effect demons had on the individuals in the New Testament varied. The worst case being the man who lived among the tombs. He seemed as crazy as you can be. He also abused himself physically and attacked people who came to that area. He was very dangerous because of the demons.
I have heard more than one missionary talk about encountering demons in far away, underdeveloped countries. I have no reason not to believe them. But my measuring stick for the truth is the Bible, and like I said the Bible says demons are real.
There are some who like to attribute all kinds of human sins to the activity of evil spirits. For example: spirit of lust, spirit of anger, etc. This is incorrect. In general, human beings need no help in sinning.
All that being said, I am not one to say that there is a demon or angel behind every tree...but there probably is.
Two things to consider when discussing this topic:
1) The Catholic Church I think rightly divides the enemy into three parts; the World, the Flesh, and the Devil. If the World and the Flesh will do the job Satan doesn't have to.
2) We have no idea how many Angels God created, but we do know that only 1/3 of them fell. That means 2/3's of them are loyal and active.
Whenever anyone wants to talk about demons keep these two items in mind.
I agree with Char and Hickory.
They are tricky and cunning. In some cases I think there is some truth in the old saw "say its name 3 times and summon it to you".
My wife and I were watching a history channel show and a single name was named 3 times. For the next 2 days we both felt a "pressure" to speak that name aloud, and repeat it. My wife actually said it twice in my hearing.
In the end we went to a Methodist church that bears the same name as the church I was raised and confirmed in. Knelt and asked for help, explained the problem. Praised the Lord. Got up and walked out. (Old recipe for removing a curse, go back to the church you were raised in, ask the Lord for help and a blessing, always seemed to work for me)
That "pressure" or compulsion to say that name was gone like it had never existed.
But for 2 days it was always at the back of our mind.
I make no claim to knowing all the answers.
But I have seen and experienced many things in this journey.
My best advice, walk softly, stay strong in your faith, if you have problems turn to the Lord.
No, it means that two thirds did not fall for Satan's lies, and follow him. As always there are those who seek the middle ground neither for or against, luke warm, so to speak, the actual number of those who sided with GOD, and stay with GOD, as warriors is not the 2/3 remainder.Quote:
That means 2/3's of them are loyal and active.
Look around you and see, where is the 2/3 majority?
Just food for thought.
There may have been a time when possession was a very real thing but I ain't buying it anymore.
The Morning Star has no need to engage in such activities anymore. The wicked hearts of men are more than capable of doing his work for him. He just sits back and laughs as men do his work for him.
I know what people believe and I know what the word says but personally [you heard me right, this is only my worthless opinion] Lucifer and his peons are as impotent as a 100 year old man with no prostate.
"Hey Lucey, if you're so powerful and awesome, get out here and show your face and do something. ....but you won't because you're a worthless and weak coward with no power or authority."
I'm more afraid of rogue clowns or antifa than I am the spineless, belly crawling father of lies.
I met one once. It was in a woman my partner and I arrested. The hate and aggressiveness she (it) projected was so thick it was almost visible. I remembered something a minister had told me that he had said when he encountered one, "My Master is stronger than your master", and I said it. It was almost like putting the lid on a boiling tea pot. These are the kind of things most will not believe unless they experience it. I never saw such hatred from anyone's eyes.
Some years ago, I used to go into the worst parts of Portland, OR on Friday and Saturday nights and witness to folks on the streets. Crackheads, gang members, strippers, people going to clubs...wherever the Lord led me, I would go.
One night in particular, as soon as I parked, I could “feel” a difference in the air. I walked a little over a block, heading towards China Town, and encountered a very demon possessed man. Now, I’ve dealt with many people who were being used by the devil, but this one was being inhabited. I’ve nevr seen a human’s face twist and change like this person did, and I’ve never encountered so great a form of blaspemy. This man made no attempt to do anything but cuss me, cuss Jesus, and salivate all over himself. I’d love to sit here and say it didn’t rattle me, but it did. I told him (vet batum) “in the Name of Jesus, shut up”....and I kept walking.
So yes- it is a reality.
Remember Jesus was tormented in the garden,
Google flakka and bath salts. See what that does to people. You'd swear it was a full bore, Hollywood style possession.
The first question you must answer is: When you die is there a place you go? If you answer "No I am just dead and that is that." Then you do not believe in a God or Demons or Angels right?
If you answered the first question and you believe in an afterlife then ask yourself "Is there a God...? Was Jesus real?" The correct answer is obvious. If you believe in an afterlife then God, Jesus, Angels, Demons and Heaven are possible to exist in your mind and heart.
If you believe in those and you pray to God and ask forgiveness for your sins, express a believe in the Salvation provided by Jesus and ask God into your heart....then you are now a Christian. You will go to Heaven and you will have been saved. That is what being "Born Again" is. Nothing else.
Your place in Heaven does not depend on Good Works, Charity or any other man thought of deeds or restrictions.
Now in my 75th year of life I was lucky enough to have been saved in 1999 at the ripe age of 56. As my faith grew and I let God in on my decisions and prayed for his guidance my personality underwent a slow but dramatic change. Yes I remained self confident and assured in my dealings with people but now I am more tolerant, less judgemental and much more forgiving of things done against me. I believe in Demons and the Devil and his minons as I have seen them at work in the lives of others and also his attempts to dissuade me from walking with the Lord.
The more fervent my faith and my attempts to help others have resulted in his actions against me and my family again and again. Yes there are people who are demon possessed and we work and play with them every day. We do not recognize them usually but they make their presence known by their actions and words. The gossip monger who always finds a way to talk about the failings and misdeeds of others and cannot wait to tell you about it will also tell others things about you that you would not like revealed. Beware of friends who always seem to find the down side of something and make efforts to bring others down in your opinion are people to avoid. People who praise others and seem to find the good in people are much in demand but hard to find in our NEW WORLD ORDER.
The closer you get to god and your faith the more the torment will be, Padre Pio is a very good example
Friends, do not associate demonic possession with bad conduct, evil intent and anti-god feelings. There are plenty of mean evil people in this world and most of them are not possessed. A possessed person has their human personality taken over. The demon just uses their body. Often the possessed person has a different voice, speaks languages the human host does not know. It is common for the demon to try and kill the human host.
True demonic possession is rare in the United States and other highly developed countries but far less rare in the 3rd. World. Why this is, I don't know, but it probably has to do with a level of belief in magic, sorcery, witchcraft and the like that invites these spirits to come and abide. It is a susceptibility.
It must be noted that Satan is a defeated enemy. The power of Christ in the Christian provides all the protection needed. Therefore the Christian need have no fear of Satan or any of his/her emissaries. Christians should avoid playing with magic, witchcraft and spiritism of all kinds. When folks start to look for power elsewhere than Christ, it weakens their faith and bad things can happen.
Being raised in the US, I poo-pawed the notion of demons and other such spooky stuff until one day in January of 1973 in Madras, India. I have witnessed the real deal in India and during my years in Ecuador. I will just say that I have no fear of Satan. He is pretty much toothless. Satan only has the power in our lives that we give to him/her. Standing alone he/she has no real power, just smoke and mirrors. He/she can do parlor tricks of sorts and suck people in when they become fascinated with this sort of stuff.
Since returning stateside in 1981, I have steadfastly refused to talk about the subject in any detail. I don't want to be the one that tells a story that causes persons to want more detail. This can lead to a fascination with Satan, which is not a good thing.
Agree......Quote:
Originally Posted by Ickisrulz
Absolutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hickory
Gods judgement is upon the world now. His judgement is this: You don't Me or my word, and can do it yourself better??
Go for it.
2nd Chronicles 7:14
if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
SHiloh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Char-Gar
I have heard this about South America, and the African continent by missionaries like yourself.
They have seen possession, curses, hexes, etc.
SHiloh
It's good to see others who have a grasp on the world crises...Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh
Regarding the 'evil ones', the human and not so human beings...well, they get their 'earthly power and fortune' from here...
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Our first protection against this, is this...in the preceding two verses...
Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Satin ain't all that dangerous Thundar, sheets and pillow cases seldom ever posses one. . . . .:kidding:
I believe that people can be demon possessed but like others here, it is uncommon in civilized societies. I believe that what we mostly see in America is the reprobate mind or depraved mind spoken of in Romans chapter 1.
The mind controls all actions of the body conscious and unconscious. This would affect speech,muscle movement,thoughts and the thoughts on all issues civil or spiritual. So those with reprobate minds have a different perspective on life.
Those with reprobate minds can not determine right from wrong ,sin from acts pleasing to God or correct human behavior.
Thus a gay person may have a changed voice,different muscle movements and an opinion what they are doing is not wrong even in God's eyes.
Others may destroy people with their tongue, be greedy,or put themselves above others. These actions is much more common than demon possession.
I've worked in juvenile and adult corrections. I've seen the devil or his representative. Once I looked into a man's face, and he stared at me with the eyes of a goat. He was not the only one.
This can be a pretty fascinating subject. I think that's because we probably can't know the ultimate answer to it? How does one differentiate between actual possession, and just plain old weakness, meanness, and wilfulness combined with anti-social tendencies? Indeed, humanity CAN gravitate to evil so thoroughly that they CAN mimic possession. I have twice seen what may well have been an actual possession. Both subjects were behind bars, thankfully. One was a man who'd just turned 17 and could finally be tried as an adult. He'd killed his own no-good and near equally evil father a couple of years previously, and now had matured so that when you looked into his eyes, you could just "feel" the evil and hatred as though it were reaching out for you from his eyes! The second was a female black girl who was a prostitute and heavy drug user. She was pretty attractive, physically, but seemed to live for evil and self destruction. She was incarcerated and in an isolation cell alone, because she was going through withdrawal from heroin. He mouth was literally foaming, and it was so thick it was nearly like shaving cream. The fear, hatred and desperation in her eyes was unlike anything I'd ever seen before. Open that door and you'd be attacked with everything she had in her! Were these two instances examples of possession, the effects of drugs, or being raised by hateful, evil people? Who knows? I can't say definitively, but they sure were good candidates for actual possession.
It's my understanding, from what I've heard, and I think it was mostly from Catholic theology, that one must invite a demon inside. This may be accomplished by simply being afraid, and having a demon claim they'll protect the subject, or any number of other possibilities. Satan is a very opportunistic actor, and will use whatever conditions exist in whatever way he can, to accentuate evil in our world.
Those of you who don't believe in possession have probably never seen a really good candidate for it. And too, our modern world is super good at concealing the REAL inner status of people and probably other entities. This MAY be the reason that possession doesn't seem as prevalent in our more developed or "modern" cultures. I don't know, and I'm not qualified to say that possession is or isn't real, other than that my Bible accounts for it, and I am very loathe to discount anything in my Bible. Identifying things like possession, though, is a very tough nut to crack, and maybe especially so in our modern world wherein many conceal their real motives and sentiments. Is mental illness a "possession?" Could be. Many would poo poo this, but they also poo poo a lot of other stuff that the Faithful believe as well, so .... one pays one's money and takes their choices as to what they tend to believe or not believe. What IS, though, does not vary. It's just that only God and maybe certain highly trained and knowledgeable people, like Catholic priests, are likely completely qualified (or as close as we humans can get to it) to identify and deal with and hopefully cast out demons in our modern world.
We "moderns" tend strongly to discount what we don't fully understand. That is a mistake, and CAN be a very serious weakness, and can open a conduit for evil to advance in our world today. The best day's work Satan ever did was in convincing many that he didn't exist! For those that don't believe he exists, he can go about invisibly (due to our willful and self-imposed blindness) and do his work without hindrance from "knuckle draggers" who still believe in what the Bible clearly and definitively says is real.
Personally, if I ever suspected demon possession, I'd go to the Catholics for help, even though I'm a Baptist. After all, they DID have a 1500 year head start on us protestants! And they have had processes and a framework of tests with which to identify and "treat" possession.
And ain't it funny how folks who watched "The Exorcist" all seemed to believe in possession while they were watching that movie? At the end, though, many suspended their belief, and walked out "safe" again, at least in their own minds. We humans are a very peculiar and willful lot, are we not?
Well I started this thread sometime back because of the Satan thread in the chapel and I am trying to keep contentious issues out of that forum.
I think there is sufficient evidence in the NT that Satan and THE Devil are one and the same, the father of lies, the great deceiver. It also appears that devils, demons, and evil spirits are also real entities, not the devil but his minions. ex. They knew Jesus and he knew them, and its obvious they have fore knowledge of their ultimate fate as well. So would anyone argue that Satan, demons, and evil spirits are as real as God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. The difference in beliefs is in how much power they have, and the means they have to possess one. I personally believe that Satan's powers have been restricted by Christ triumph over death to the extent that involuntary possession may not be in demons powers, in the Christian age, but a demon may be invited in, perhaps even accidentally. I believe we are protected by Christ and even through those who love us that are in Christ, ie in a Christian home.
I've seen just about every thing that has been spoken of here, mental illness, rage, drug induced phycosess, perhaps just plan evil, or maby a possessed person. That goat eye thing is real, it's an eye disorder, there use to be a girl working at a local store who had them. I'm a talker. One day in the grocery checkout line I spoke to they man in front of me. When he turned around I swear the pure evil cut to my core. I didn't sense it until I spoke to him, like the prescience was remaining hidden until I initiated the contract! I actually told my wife, "I think I meet a killer today in the checkout line"! When I was a child I awoke in the night. It was so quiet and still but a shadow figure moved along the wall to my bed. It reached out to touch my head, but as it touched me I felt us forced apart, the shadow hand repelled, slapped away, and me slapped back into sleep. Was this just in my head, or something trying to get in my head? I'm not sure, but it is as real a memory for me as what I had for dinner. You are the first I have ever shared this with as well! I witnessed a near death experience in the ER once as well, and not the peaceful, light at the end of the tunnel kind either! This young lady's heart stopped as a result of trauma and she was coded. When the attending physician defibrillated her she sucked in a deep breath, sat bolt upright on the gurne and with a sheer look of terror screamed, "don't let them take me to hell! O God, don't let them take me to hell"! You could have heard a pin drop in that room like time stood still. What did she experience? I don't know, but I'll NEVER forget it!
Where ever the truth of the matter lies. Christ did indeed give his followers power over such things through him! Interesting comments by all. The God of all power and dominion bless and keep us all! Amen
We have evil. Therefore Satan and his demons exist. Some modern bible scholars believe otherwise and talk about symbolism. They say that much in the bible is symbolism and allegory and not to be taken literally. Once I was swayed by this brand of religion but no longer. I returned to the teachings of my youth delivered in a rural church many decades ago.
I am unable to find any reference to demonic possession in a person who has be "Indwelled" by God The Holy Spirit. How one receives the indwelling is clearly explained in the scriptures. BUT, and its a big but, seems that any person is subject to demonic influence.
I highly recommend this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Invisible-War...SIN=031020481X
I first read it several years ago. Since then, I have used it as a reference to many scriptural passages and verses. The book, itself, can be intimidating. The more you read, the clearer things get.
Evil spirits do exist. I don't see what I believe is a lot of possessing but rather influencing.
Satin, Evil Spirits, and Devils,
Yeah, they exist, I have had to work for them before !!!!
I think that the events that happened to Jesus in the wilderness when he was tempted by Satan give us a clue. When the temptations came, Jesus response was "it is written" - he clung to God's word. By doing so, he was not overtaken by Satan and eventually told him "go away Satan...", and Satan departed. In essence, unless you invite the demons in, they cannot take over. James 4:7 shows that if we stay close to God and oppose the Devil he will run from us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thundarstick
In short, I do indeed believe that demons are real and that we have a choice whether we directly invite them into our lives. Some view tarot cards and astrologers as just something fun to do, but they are spiritistic practices that are condemned in the Bible and open a door for the demons. That is not to say that demonic influences do not impact us every day. After all, 1 John 5:19 tells us that the world we live in now is under the control of the 'evil one' - or Satan the Devil (and by extension, his demons).
Quote:
Originally Posted by claude
Well...
It seems pretty certain and unarguable that demons do in fact exist, for very reliable reports have come from too many places and people who have seen levitations, and other supernatural things in the possessed. The Catholic church is, I think THE principal entity who casts out demons today (correct me if I'm wrong here). They have some very strict and stringent rules they must abide by, and proceedures they must follow in diagnosing a possession. I don't know much about these rules, and don't really want to. I'll leave it to those better fit to deal with it than I am. I guess this is another place where some humility helps us?
Personally, I'm with Char-Gar in his first response to this question. It's probably, I think, not MEANT for us to really understand possession. Thus, though a Baptist, the first thing I'd do if I suspected possession is to go to a Catholic priest. We don't HAVE to separate ourselves the way we so often do! Just my take on it, of course, FWIW, if anything?
Yep agree 100%. Demons were around during the time of the Apostles and just like the ability to perform miracles, lay on hands, and speak in tongues( speaking fluently a foreign language) ended with Apostles.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoAngel
Also if demons and possession was real...would not every priest, minister, and elder try to get footage of that? "Look right here proof!!!!"
And this right here may be why we haven't been exposed to a lot of demon possessions in developed countries. Satan has a more effective tool working for him - materialism. The belief that nothing supernatural exists - no God, no devil, just a bunch of protons and electrons spinning in space. If Dawkins, Harris, and Dennet actually witnessed a possessed person they may discard their atheism.Quote:
Also if demons and possession was real...would not every priest, minister, and elder try to get footage of that? "Look right here proof!!!!"
However, that said, there does seem to be a rise in possessions going on here in the U.S. There are more exorcists and they seem to be over-busy.
Just look how things are around you and for the movies and music of now from the past 10 years how far it been going to. There is things that I will not talk about because of that this is not the place to talk about it. So many are blind for not see and then there are so many do not hear because they do not listen. Someone brought up the New World Order. It been show its face for a long time but now it came out. There is other things that is show its face with out looking for it .