I get some PM's about this little phart of a case and even though I thought my google-foo was pretty good I guess it isn't. Does anyone know where to find something like a Wilson case gauge for that little pip-squeek?
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I get some PM's about this little phart of a case and even though I thought my google-foo was pretty good I guess it isn't. Does anyone know where to find something like a Wilson case gauge for that little pip-squeek?
If you send two or three cases Wilson will make a holder for it
Thing is I have no cases to send, I can't even find the S.A.A.M.I. specs on that round either. I get asked more times than I can remember if I make them and I haven't even looked into the process to make them yet, maybe because I can't find the gauges for it.
As far as I know this caliber has not been submitted to the SAAMI spec organization officially yet. I have loaded rounds new brass and a gun that I can measure the chamber on and I will post a drawing here but it would be nice to get the official drawing from armscor and I have asked them for it.I am getting ready to make or modify a set of dies for it so I have to get some good measurements anyway.
Should be able to get a reamer drawing from Pacific Matt. And I believe Wilson can make a gauge from that.
Contact cooper arms in Montana.
Take care
r1kk1
Grumpa, I have a jig for that one too.
I will have cases and factory loaded rounds in about 10 days.
Matt, I can take a couple apart and fire the primers and send them to you if you want.
I have lee dies that should be here about the same time as well.
It's one thing to have cases for it, when you start making something new from something else the 1 major factor is shoulder location. When I make things I use indicators so that I know where the shoulder location is and that's called a gauge dimension. Just when I do the 300BLK cases I have what I need right on the table and I check periodically to make sure something doesn't move, that's what I call being in control of the operation.
Not to mention other diameters and dimensions that fall into place that a person just has to know where the limits are. I watched a youtube video on someone making 22TCM brass and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. He's got so many different head stamps in the same batch and he's making brass like that?
I don't know about other folks out there but anyone that's ever ordered my 221 Fireball brass the brass itself is withing 2gr of each other because I use the same head stamped brass. You start mixing and matching brass that's an invitation to disaster. Not only is the thickness of the brass different from 1 brand to the next but so is the quality. Tell you 1 thing, I wouldn't be putting that guy high on my list of places to get cases from that's for sure.
Edit: I e-mailed LEWILSON about the gauge for the 22TCM so I'll take the wait and see approach and see what happens....
I got an e-mail from LEWILSON about the gauge for that case and here's what they said:
Hello,
I am sorry we do not offer that caliber in our Case Gages. *We just don't have the tooling to make them.
Good luck with your search!
Customer Service
L.E. Wilson Inc.
PO Box 324
404 Pioneer Ave
Cashmere, WA 98815
www.lewilson.com
www.lewilsondirect.com
Figured I would put it in here in case someone else had the same idea I had.
Thats a shame. Is there a reamer out there for this?
I'm sure there is,but.....do I really want to pay "X" amount for a reamer and "X" amount to have someone make a gauge on something I might make around .07ea on?
Found a lot of threads saying so and so makes a reamer or that person sells a reamer. I couldn't find an actual reamer or anything. Sorry.
D. Kiff made my gunsmith a reamer, I requested the leade be shorten. Three dummy rounds were sent. Still waiting on the hd sp ga though. Factory cases will fit a Wilson 221 FB case holder(new), on mine there's .055 of the case mouth sticking out. I'll probably have my gunsmith face off the case holder another .050. The case necks are very tight, I had to use a K&M neck expander to open them up. I ordered a 12 tw Lilja barrel for my gun. I have some of the excellent MOE moulds I want to try out when the rifle is completed. On dies, I believe Lee made the 1st. CH4D is making a run, I ordered them 9 weeks ago. I also understand that Hornady will be producing dies. This case is very strong. Only thing wrong I've found is a big burr in the flash hole, something like 1 in 8 has this ( this was on 1500 cases). I went ahead and uniformed the flash holes and primer pockets while I was at it. I used the 221 FB case holder while uniforming them with a cordless drill. Saves cramping the hands.
I just got off the phone with ch4d and their first run of dies is all sold , they wont have any more for 6 months at least. I got some remanufactured brass from AmmoSupplyWarehouse and it is all mixed headstamp. All made from .223 brass. Ammosupply warehouse also says they have 500 sets of dies on order from Hornady but the delivery has been delayed many times. I will get the hornady dies as soon as they are available , but in the mean time I am modifying a set of .223 dies to at least neck size seat and crimp. I would apreciate any details you could share here .
I would think that 223 dies would require a lot of work to do that. I would see if I could get my hands on 221 Fireball dies and to be honest I don't think those will need to be modified at all. I have a set of dies in 221 Fireball and without actually having a 22TCM cases right here in front of me I can't be sure but I'm almost certain it would work.
This is a drawing that I made from measurements averaged over several new 22tcm cases I have right from armscor. https://www.dropbox.com/s/tlj1qks06raxx9b/22tcm_prm.pdf I hope this helps a little bit. I do agree the .221 fireball would be very easy to modify dies and make into 22 tcm.
I'm talking the 221 Fireball die for the sizing and the seating and crimp operation and not modifying them for the 22TCM. The thing I dislike about what you got is the fact you have a hodge-podge of head stamps going on. Just for grins I would weigh just a few and note the variation and think, I'm getting "X" amount of variance from one to the next so I know I'm going to have some pressure variations. Don't know about you but in my book if they aren't done right then why sell them?
I want to dive into this matter a bit closer, I can't help it I like a challenge and when something is harder.....it makes it all that much more enjoyable to me when I can figure it out. I may have to make a few PM's and have a gauge actually made for these, you can't tell me they make these things and look at them and pass them off as being OK without gauges.
gunbroker
They were VERY expensive.
I have been waiting for the TCM dies since Feb.
I saw set on GB go for $191.00 .
Ammo Warehouse is saying, they will be getting the TCM dies in Sept. from Hornady.
I located a set of .221 dies and they will have to be modified to make 22 tcm the only thing that needs to be done to them is to shorten them each by .346. there is no way they will work without shortening
I purchased 2 of the last available sets from CH4D a few days ago and expect them to arrive in 2-3 weeks. I was contacted by Hornady yesterday and they have indicated they are almost finished with a 1000 set contract for Armscor.
Is there a link to armscor and the dies? It seems they show a bunch of other stuff but no dies.....
SUccess!! the modified dies work just fine
It does size the case body more than I would like but it fits and functions perfectly
Inquiring minds would like to know just when you say it sized the case body more than you would like just how much that is.
I'm thinking about doing that to a different set of dies in 221 Fireball once I get them that is and trying that myself. But depending on how much it actually sizes the body a person might need to do some lapping in the ID of the die to open it up a bit.
About .003 about .20 up from the base. does not affect function and yes could be honed nicely rest went perfecto and I will be loading 22 tcm this weekend
To put it in a nutshell you pretty much made a small base die?
The only problem for me , using a shorten 221 die is the shoulder dia. My 22 TCM new cases are mic'g .369 and maybe a 1/3 at .370 at the shoulder. The bases are running .372-3. My 221 Rem sized ( Redding die) cases are running right at .357 at the shoulder. Thats more than I'd like a case to expand at the shoulder. This brass is very strong, I made a 20 cal wildcat out of 500. When working up a forming load, I had another senior moment, I trusted my memory from a week before. It was a very hot load. Lots of head expansion but primer held. I think they built in some safety in this case since it was for the 1911 design gun. I've made a lot of wildcats off the LC 223 brass and my gut feeling is that load would have blew a LC primer. Using H380 my 22 TCM cases has the same volume as my 22 K Hornet.
Factory loads I measured are .365/.366 at the shoulder mine are coming out of the die at .363 , they chamber and feed perfectly and go bang I will run them over the chrony next time out and shoot from a rest to see how they group but I am happy and i can make lots of 22 tcm now with my butchered up .221 fireball dies. Not my first choice but right now thats the only game in town. When I can get a nice set of lee with a factory crimp die i will but for now this is what I am using.
Well I got done altering my 221 Fireball dies and I got the brass within specs after a few hours of hand lapping the die in, they turned out rather well. I have a 221 Fireball case gauge and the 22TCM drops right in there but just like the die it's going to need to be shortened up.
I have a member that's going to send me a couple of factory cases and when I get them I'll whittle down the gauge I have so that I know the ones I'm making are going to work. Without a gauge and a barrel there's no way I can know for sure if what I'm doing is right or not.
The one thing that a person is going to have to do with the home made cases is ream them, there's no way home made cases are even going to be close to working without reaming..
I am making some expander/powder dies for lee powder measures if anyone is interested. I think this will make the reloading of this little beauty a lot quicker , at least for me YMMV
Matt, my brother measured the factory brass and he said its thicker the most 223 brass. I want to say he said .018
I think I'll wait till I get a couple of cases that are factory and go from there. For some reason I was coming up with a .012 measurement but we'll see.
On a brighter note I did get the gauge issue resolved, now it's a game of hurry up and wait for some factory cases so I can do my magic on them and go from there.
Although I will need a couple of field testers when all is said and done with what I make.
Do I have any guinea pigs..errrr.....takers?
That would be me.....
send me a PM with your address
:happy dance::happy dance: The part about the cases?:happy dance::happy dance:
Or the part about the Guinea pig/field tester? :awesome:
:kidding:
both.. LOL
Grumpa, on 8-7 you said some one was sending you some TCM brass did you get it yet? if not PM me I will get them in the Mail TODAY for you.
I am sending them to him. My order doesn't come in until today. I am also sending him a loaded round.
Factory brass and factory ammo.