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So I have tried the Klass Kote. It worked well in my 9mm. The .45 acp was iffy but I think I need to size the .45 acp .001 larger. I just ordered some PC from PBTP and will try some done up Piglet style using Lacquer thinner for a solvent. Has anyone else compared the two coatings? Please do not bring Hi Tek coatings into this thread. No disrespect to it, I know it works and all but would like to keep this between Piglet PC and Klass Kote.
Thanks
Lights
I plan to try both soon. I have everything on order and am still waiting on the Klass Kote, HF PC, and the cheap oven. I already have the Powder By the Pound samples that I ordered (they have crazy fast service). I bought some lacquer thinner and plan to do the Piglet method. I have little desire to use the gun for spraying powder so if that fails then I will focus on the epoxy paint tumble. I did order the HBN powder only to have it be backordered on me. I may try an initial batch with some fine graphite added instead of the HBN to see if that acts in a similar manner as graphite is at least ten times cheaper. But for now I'm suffering through check the mailbox syndrome....
What is the advantage of Laquer Thinner over Acetone? I've used Piglet Coat and have been happy with the results, but if laquer thinner provides an advantage, I'd be all for it.
Skip has actually used both Klass Kote and Piglet Coat. IIRC, he thought KK was more difficult to control the coating process (was affected by temperature whereas PC is not). I believe he was successful with both, though.
I found this on another forum. http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/view...?f=141&t=84219 He claims the Lacquer thinner works way better.Quote:
Originally Posted by prickett
I tried lacquer thinner with HF red power and found that it did NOT work as well as Acetone.
I have good results with the Piglet method using HF red powder on my 9MM slugs.
Lafaun
Thanks Lights. Guess its time to try some L.T. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lights
I love how creative casters are. Now, if they'd just come up with a way that my boolits could cast themselves :-)
Never seen Magma's Mark 8 bullet Master??? Prepare yourself...Quote:
Originally Posted by prickett
http://www.magmaengineering.com/comp...nners/click/9/
That $11,350 would buy a whole bunch of boolits cast by someone else :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximumbob54
That's why I said prepare yourself... for the pricetag!!!! :shock:Quote:
Originally Posted by prickett
My first tumble of Klass Kote:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4b835284.jpg
I will coat them again one more time tonight. I know a thin coat should keep them from puddling but I want to see if they can lay on the wax paper or if they need to stand up.
I just got my gloss Klass Kote catalyst today. I will say this the satin catalyst works but it is a PITA to mix. It has a ton of solids in it. The gloss has none. My PBTP powder order also showed up today. I need to get over to Wally World and get an oven later tonight. The wife about killed me the last time I cured Klass Kote'd boolits in here oven. Then I will compare Klass Kote to PC'd boolits on a far side by side test.
Bob, try drying them on some hardware mesh. That is how HI-TEKers and Piglet Coaters do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximumbob54
I have a new roll ready I just wanted to try this first. It hasn't been long but I just handled a few and they don't stick at all. The best part is the epoxy doesn't look like it is puddling at all but once again I'm doing a thin coat.Quote:
Originally Posted by prickett
I tumbled and baked some 9mm and .45 boolits yesterday. I used lacquer thinning with the PC and they come out like they have zits all over them.:mad: On the other hand I also did some up with Klass Kote and they came out nice.:smile: I may not have let the PC'ed ones flash enough before baking them. I will be off to the range to try them out in my RIA 1911 in the morning.
Cheap Harbor Freight powder coat, Kleen Strip lacquer thinner, and a cheap bucket from Home Depot:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...psea2c870d.jpg
I added some thinner over the bullets and swished it around and then dusted on some powder then shake a little add more powder and shake a little and continue until even:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...psd6ec1f43.jpg
I made a screen with a couple of layers of hardware cloth and rolled the edges to prevent any bullets rolling off:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5ebaa26d.jpg
Bake them at 400 degrees for thirty minutes but make sure the thinner has all dried first or they go boom in oven... Ask me how I know. No wait, don't...
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...ps32436a7b.jpg
Results in about half an hour...
I will try the PC again today.
nice. Will have to try this.
Thanks.
They turned out a little brown from the initial red color and they aren't perfect looking but ugly bullets still shoot good...
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7065e833.jpg
After second coating and baking:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...ps33d0c430.jpg
I'm finding they stick to the mesh pretty bad. Is anyone else getting this or am I doing something wrong?
Do you really need the second coat?
I'm not sure. The coating looked a little thin in the uneven areas so I gave it a second coating.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmortimer
The the epoxy vs. PC aspect of this thread though... So far my Klass Kote epoxy is failing:
Klass Kote sizing after a few days:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...psd1bcf674.jpg
HFPC sizing after cooling down from this morning's baking session:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1ec64910.jpg
The epoxy may need a third coat, may need to set longer, or may need to be tumbled in HBN or graphite instead of mixing it in the paint but either way they are failing during sizing. The HFPC actually cleaned out lead I didn't know was in the sizing die. They went through very easy with only the usual amount of effort while the epoxy felt like I was about to rip the press off the bench. I will let the epoxy set a few more days and try again and if they fail then they will get dusted with lube or a third layer may be needed.
One thing is for sure though, so far the HFPC is winning. But it's ugly... :oops:
Just got back from the range. Both PC and Klass Kote worked well. I like the Klass kote better. I can put it on thinner than I can the PC and the boolits do not look like a teenagers face after a week of eating pizza. The trick was to size my boolits .002 over grove diameter and tumble them with just super thin coat of JPW. No leading at all after 30 shots in a rougher than average .45 acp barrel.
Picture is of my 9mm boolits I do not have a good one right now of my .45 boolits. But the look pretty much the same.
Does the JPW smoke when shot?
Lights - How thin are you applying the Klass Kote and how many layers? And you tumble them in JPW the final round?
I'm finding that a much lighter dusting of powder coat the first time is looking a lot better this go around:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...psde2ba6d3.jpg
I apply just enough to wet the boolits. I do two coats. If I have too much KK in the bucket I just add more boolits or blot the ones that are in the tub. I did learn that you need to remove all of the KK left on the bucket or use a new one every time you apply it. Otherwise you will start getting thick chunks of old dry KK coming off of the dirty tube and on to your boolits. Then they will looks as ugly as the PC with zits. I thin my KK with lacquer thinner.
The JPW does not smoke at all for me. I apply a vary small amount and when the boolits are still warm from the oven.
Are you baking them? If so, how high is the temp and for how long?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lights
I bake them at 210-220 for 20 min after each coat.
I may have to try Klass Kote since I want to coat heat treated bullets and Hi-Tek requires curing temperatures that would undo heat treating.
Lights - I'm going to melt mine back down and start over copying what you do as mine are still failing:
The one on the left was a thicker coat than the one on the right and they both failed during sizing
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2f7fc24b.jpg
Looks to me like to much paint and they were still to tacky when you put them on the screen.
Lights
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximumbob54
Those were done last week. I just tried to let them set in hope the epoxy would cure harder. Nope.
I did some following your advice but with one omission. I didn't have another bucket. So they banged up all the old epoxy and look all crusty. I gave them a second thinned coat and they are cooling. They still look like they don't have enough coverage on them. I have to get ready to call it a night as 4AM comes way too early but I may add another coat or two tomorrow.
I know, I know, you said you a clean bucket...
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...pse850d681.jpg
But on a whim I also ran two through the sizing die and then sat two unsized next to them... It's hard to tell which are which without close inspection...
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...ps40e85a41.jpg
It may look like they failed in sizing but these didn't have full coverage on the driving bands which is why I sat two unsized next to them as an example.
I think this may be the ticket but I either need to get them a little bit thicker (not so much thinner) or just do a second or third coat. At least this now shows promise!!!
Thank you Lights for your assistance!!! [smilie=s:
Klass Kote 2 coats 45 acp HP 200gr. Watch Wiederlader's video on youtube. This have already been sized and are about a week old.
Attachment 77642 Attachment 77645
Yep them look about perfect Evil5826.
Baked the previously air dried epoxy and they went right through the sizer like butter without scuffing...
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...psa4616d2d.jpg
That's on top of 32.5gr of IMR 3031 for the lightest load I could find data.
I learned a new lesson yesterday. While epoxy drying on wax paper does not stick... epoxy does indeed stick to wax paper when baked in an oven set to 215 degrees... do these count as partial paper patched now....? http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...OLsignslap.gif
I'm going to try some more tonight but take a few days for the process. They look really good if you let them air dry on the wax paper. So the plan is cast, tumble in KK, allow to air dry a few hours or overnight, pour into the tray. They don't seem to stick if in contact with each other if they are mostly air dry cured first. So after baking they may not even need the second coat if done right the first time. Using the KK in a 1:1 and then diluting that at about a 1:2 with lacquer thinner seems to give good coverage without thinning so much they need a second coat. Since nothing comes off during sizing after they bake then I think this needs to be the next serious test.
Trying a new source of powder:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4c1ef94c.jpg
This seems to be working much better. I must admit I'm standing on the shoulders of giants here. If it weren't for all the info posted on this forum then I wouldn't have even thought about trying any of this. Thank you to all that have posted pics and tested their results.
You mix the powder with the lacquer thinner in about a 1:4 powder to thinner and shake shake shake until the thinner is dry and the bullets are coated:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4411b95c.jpg
Initially you may think you don't have enough powder but just keep shaking until everything dries. Once dry bake in the oven at 400 for 10 minutes just like the label says.
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2d9c8890.jpg
That's the first coating and I plan on doing a second one tonight. These will be loaded for shooting tomorrow. The previous HF batch will also be tested.
TBC...
EDIT:
I failed to mention something that I find to be a HUGE WIN for powder coat so far.
Since you have to shake the bullets in the bucket until the thinner evaporates off that means the bullets are dry. For whatever chemical reasoning the baking and cooling of the finish does next to nothing to make the bullets stick to each other. I just did a rather large batch just to prove this to myself. The Powder by the Pound powder is polyester based while the HP powder is epoxy based. Go figure the HF bullets stuck together a little more but still not as bad as the two part paint tumbled bullets. The HF powder may only be $5 a pound but the PBTP is so far around $10 to $20 and seems to be coating much better and isn't sticking really at all. I'm calling PBTP for the early win as long as it performs and .40SW should push this for a good pressure test for leading.
Oh, and yes I saw some of the bullets are fragged. I plan on culling as I drop them in cases during loading tonight. I didn't want to look at each of them right now while I'm trying to cook everything and coat a second time. I see no need to handle twice when I have to handle them during loading anyways.
Let me know cause I am interested in powder coating as well. Could you post a pic of the second coating after baking? Curious on what it looks like.
I shoot my Klass Kote 45acp's tomorrow. Ill post a barrel pic aftermath and target accuracy pic as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximumbob54
That looks good ! Nice coverage. The second coat will make it perfect.
I have that mold too... I'm willing to pay extra for better powder myself. Thanks!
Loaded second coat:
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...ps48ca427f.jpg
I did the second batch with just a bit too much powder but nothing crazy. I only say that as the thinner batch sized just fine.
Is that coating sparkly or is it spotty? I can't tell. Doesn't look like the bullets are fully coated.