my first Zinc contamination in WW smelting.

the first pot full, first thing in the morning.
I got side tracked after getting the first pot going while
setting up everything else needed to make ingots.
silver OATMEAL...Let me tell you.
I tried raising the heat, and then got purple and gold Oatmeal.
the more I removed the oatmeal like dross, the more formed.
I put all the dross back in the pot when I realized it was Zinc contamination,
raised the heat up real high...then fluxed-fluxed-fluxed,
then Ladled for ingots from underneath the dross.
AND STILL, this is what the ingots looked like.
compared to good WW alloy ingots on the left.
I'm not sure what I'll do with these ingots, but luckily it
was only a small batch, about 15 lbs or so.

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/u...ed100_2661.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/u...ed100_2660.jpg

Before I know about sulphur, I also lost a bucket of lead due to zinc!
What I noticed was like a shiny blue, purple color on the top of the melt.

Zinc is not shiny blue and purple. That is lead oxides which will flux back in with stirring and carbon flux.

Zinc is a greyish oatmealy substance that won't flux back in at lower heat (600 degrees or so) but instead floats and clots and looks dull instead of shiny. The ingots are wrinkly and look dull likie the ones above. It will also bubble and fizz when you drop acid on it because the zinc reacts with acid.

Those are some nifty ingot molds..where did ya get 'em??

Take a look at this thread it might help ??
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=63082

we done a small test buy on them and then i believe blammer had a bunch made up for sale at a later time.
i have a couple of them i use for looking at.

Sulfur: I've read about fluxing with it to remove the zinc,
but I'd rather not risk getting burned and/or harming my lungs to clean 15+lbs of alloy.

I may just try adding one ingot of the Zinc contaminated alloy
to a new full pot (18 lb) of good WW alloy to reduce the percentage
of zinc below 1.6%. If that works, I'll just use it up that way.

I love the "castboolits" ingot molds.
although kind of spendy, they make a nice size ingot
and are able to be easily centerpunch marked for
(WW or PB or Lino or Other) identification.
They were a GB (and benefit) through Blammer.
sadly, I read that they were no longer available for some reason.

Quote:

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R5R, "i have a couple of them i use for looking at."

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That's just a shame...you gotta use them.

Quote:

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I may just try adding one ingot of the Zinc contaminated alloy
to a new full pot (18 lb) of good WW alloy to reduce the percentage
of zinc below 1.6%. If that works, I'll just use it up that way.

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A couple years back I screwed up 2 40 lb batches of WW's with zinc while smelting. The first I just dumped the ingots behind the garage but the second I lowered the temp and skimmed a fair amount and added some tin to see if I could save it. Long story short it worked out great. I cast a number of .35 designs, 120tc,125 rnfp, 158TL,358429, and 158RN. All cast and shot well and were uniform weight wise along with being about 17-18 BHN. If times get tough in the lead dept I'll try the same thing with the bunch behind the garage.

Wish I would of got on of the ingot molds when I had the chance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by runfiverun

we done a small test buy on them and then i believe blammer had a bunch made up for sale at a later time.
i have a couple of them i use for looking at.

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Turn the ingots in for scrap Jon.

WILCO,
I don't have a good source to sell scrap to,
meaning I might get 30¢ per lb...if I'm lucky.

My sources that sell me Lead, don't want to buy from me.
at least they won't buy scrap brass cases, spent primers,
copper/brass scrap from smelting range scrap and/or battery terminals.
...and they won't buy the steel WW clips,
I give them the clips just to get rid of them.
Jon

You can always blend it with the next few large pots of wheel weights to use it up.
Just do not go over 2% zinc and it will cast fine.
That is how I got rid of the one batch I had with zinc.

Lafaun

I've had great results with holding the pot temp at the lowest possible to prevent the lead from going solid, and then skimming the oatmeal off. Really saved a 75# pot I let get too hot melting clip WW last year.

How can you avoid getting zinc in your WW mix?

You can avoid zinc in your mix, by sorting your weights before placing them in your pot. This is not difficult, and you can be 100% successful, by testing a suspect weight by attempting to cut it with some wire cutters. But it is time consuming, and some are not willing to spend the time to do so.


The next method; Zinc has a higher melting temperature than lead. As soon as the lead is melted, scoop out anything that is not. Assuming you have kept the temperature below the melting point of zinc, the zinc weights will be floating with the steel clips. Remove them with the clips.


The problem with this method, is that it is easier to say, than to accomplish :) If you are not monitoring the temperature closely, you can easily exceed the zinc melting temperature, thereby contaminating your lead.

I have tried all those removal methods.
None of them worked reliably.
Sawdust would reduce it but not eliminate it - after 6 to 8 fluxings.
In my experience turning the heat up makes it worse.

I am not convinced it is zinc.
Someone here had a sample of it analyzed a couple of months ago and found it contained no zinc at all.

I had about 30-40 pounds of it.

The good news is that if you will melt it, keep it cool, 600-650, stir it as little as possible, it will make perfectly good bullets.

( At least it did for me. )

Just bring the ingots to just melting and keep at 600° max, skim it.
Keep at 600° when smelting and what floats, remove it. never add more heat or flux first.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JonB_in_Glencoe

I'm not sure what I'll do with these ingots, but luckily it
was only a small batch, about 15 lbs or so.

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Update: I use one or two of these ingots blended into a 20lb pot full of misc range scrap alloy, when I'm casting some 38 plinkers or such ...just to use it up. It's been a few years and I think there are 4 or 5 ingots left.

Hmmmm... Zinc in smelt. Always a frustrating situation..... But....

Roosters link above..(see below) is a discussion of this issue. Think I am even in there a few times.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=63082

You will read some neat things. Acid, Sulfur, Borax. All can do good things to a 'messed' up smelt. I have a 'few' ingots in my 'stable' that are bad news when casted. And I hate to 'toss' any, ingot after spending the time and effort make them. But,,,some are BAD..... So what to do?

My first question is, 'have you casted' from any of the bad new Bears ingots? How did they do? Do 'you' like them?
Or, simply...in YOUR opinion...'how good is 'good'? What are you using the boolits for? Beer Can destruction? Target Competition?

I have casted some pretty 'skimpy' boolits in my day. Sized them, lubed them. loaded them. Shot them. Had fun all the way through.
And, have made some pretty nifty boolits too. (if I don't say so myself)..[and I do]... these boolits too offered fun, enjoyment and relaxation during my efforts.

The bad ones you show, don't, to me, look too bad to toss. And, in the link provided you can read how to clean them up. I have fluxed with sawdust and sulfur many,many, times. It is always my basic flux in my smelt pot. Sulfur is available from the nursery. Read the posts I provided here today and you can find where to get 'free' sawdust. I say, get the ingots in question, with some sawdust and sulfur and wax, and resmelt the lot. Flux with sawdust/sulfur three or four times, then the wax as a finish. Pour them out and see what happens. I've 'saved' some pretty 'iffy' ingots with sawdust, sulfur, wax and borax. Learned in the process.

Again, your use and your need is the driver here. Hunting and target use...??? Cast the 'good ingots'. Milk jugs, beer cans...the lesser ingots.

And...If you add 'chemicals' to your smelt pot...STAY SAFE with that stuff. ACID FUMES can blind you. Face shield, leather gloves, sleeves, apron, leather boots. Remember...'it ain't fun if your hurtin'..... And, if your fluxing with this stuff...ALWAYS...ALWAYS...OUTSIDE....and up wind.

Good Luck.

Nose Dive.

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.

PS: here is a good spot to do some reading too. ND
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

Contact Shadygradie on this sight and see if he will trade with you. He uses it for cannon balls.
CD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nose Dive

Hmmmm... Zinc in smelt. Always a frustrating situation..... But....

Roosters link above..(see below) is a discussion of this issue. Think I am even in there a few times.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=63082

You will read some neat things. Acid, Sulfur, Borax. All can do good things to a 'messed' up smelt. I have a 'few' ingots in my 'stable' that are bad news when casted. And I hate to 'toss' any, ingot after spending the time and effort make them. But,,,some are BAD..... So what to do?

My first question is, 'have you casted' from any of the bad new Bears ingots? How did they do? Do 'you' like them?
Or, simply...in YOUR opinion...'how good is 'good'? What are you using the boolits for? Beer Can destruction? Target Competition?

I have casted some pretty 'skimpy' boolits in my day. Sized them, lubed them. loaded them. Shot them. Had fun all the way through.
And, have made some pretty nifty boolits too. (if I don't say so myself)..[and I do]... these boolits too offered fun, enjoyment and relaxation during my efforts.

The bad ones you show, don't, to me, look too bad to toss. And, in the link provided you can read how to clean them up. I have fluxed with sawdust and sulfur many,many, times. It is always my basic flux in my smelt pot. Sulfur is available from the nursery. Read the posts I provided here today and you can find where to get 'free' sawdust. I say, get the ingots in question, with some sawdust and sulfur and wax, and resmelt the lot. Flux with sawdust/sulfur three or four times, then the wax as a finish. Pour them out and see what happens. I've 'saved' some pretty 'iffy' ingots with sawdust, sulfur, wax and borax. Learned in the process.

Again, your use and your need is the driver here. Hunting and target use...??? Cast the 'good ingots'. Milk jugs, beer cans...the lesser ingots.

And...If you add 'chemicals' to your smelt pot...STAY SAFE with that stuff. ACID FUMES can blind you. Face shield, leather gloves, sleeves, apron, leather boots. Remember...'it ain't fun if your hurtin'..... And, if your fluxing with this stuff...ALWAYS...ALWAYS...OUTSIDE....and up wind.

Good Luck.

Nose Dive.

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.

PS: here is a good spot to do some reading too. ND
http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm

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My first question is, 'have you casted' from any of the bad new Bears ingots?
Yes, as prescribed in post 17

How did they do?
excellent

Do 'you' like them?
yes

Or, simply...in YOUR opinion...'how good is 'good'?
I couldn't tell them from other boolits cast without one or two of these Zingots blended into a 20lb pot full of misc range scrap alloy

What are you using the boolits for? Beer Can destruction? Target Competition?
plinking

I make my own jigs and sinkers and the like with zinc contaminated alloy. I don't care if they are ugly and they make great bookends for my shelves.

Very informative post, thanks for the clear pic's of your ingots JonB!

I've blended contaminated allow into known good alloy before in order to salvage it. A few 1# ingots into a 400# smelt and you never notice.

I love the "castboolits" ingot molds.
although kind of spendy, they make a nice size ingot
and are able to be easily centerpunch marked for
(WW or PB or Lino or Other) identification.
They were a GB (and benefit) through Blammer.
sadly, I read that they were no longer available for some reason.

I would like to have gone in for this too. I love that mold!

The solution to pollution is dilution (or so a chemical engineer I know says)

DxieLandMan sign up, if your interested in GB of Ingot molds, look at post by, Lakehouse2012, titled seeking interest in 4 cavity ingot mold date 7/25/18 11:00 pm. The more folks the cheaper they will be.

Not sure about the alloy, have never had to test for or remove zinc. But, I love the ingot mould!

I just noticed that the original post was 6 years ago! But rmark has the right idea. I've seen that quoted before but I'm not sure who coined the phrase originally.

And yeah, those ingot molds are really cool. I think that deal ended about the time that I joined but I would really like to have a few of those.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lightman

I just noticed that the original post was 6 years ago! But rmark has the right idea. I've seen that quoted before but I'm not sure who coined the phrase originally.

And yeah, those ingot molds are really cool. I think that deal ended about the time that I joined but I would really like to have a few of those.

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I believe there was 2 GBs. one before I joined, and another after I joined, probably 2011. I was buying all the basics in 2010 (that's when I started casting) and surely wouldn't have shelled out the extra coin for a custom ingot mold that year.

And this is the reason I carefully sort all my wheel weights.
Test every one to get out the zinkers. If they don't get melted...No Problemo !

I've had a few batches of bad lead that would keep clogging the spout and behaving badly. Makes fine saltwater fishing weights.