Official Lyman 12ga Sabot Slug Mould 525 grain Load Data Thread
I have never used this slug. Anyone have non magnum and magnum data on the in 12 ga.?
Shell type? Wad type?
Official Lyman 12ga Sabot Slug Mould 525 grain Load Data Thread
I have never used this slug. Anyone have non magnum and magnum data on the in 12 ga.?
Shell type? Wad type?
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I have just begun to get serious with this slug, and loads. I will be very interested in some of the other members loads and componants. So far, the only load I have compiled, from my Lyman shotshell book is with a Remington STS case, a WAA12 wad and 25 grains of Herco. I fired these in a smooth bore, cyl. choke. Accuracy at 50 yards was not acceptable.
I am going to make a die to punch out proper sized card wads to go underneath the Lyman slug itself.
I have swapped out my bird barrel with a Hastings 20" rifled barrel, and will be mounting a Burris 2x7x35 scope in a day or so.
So fellas, lets post some tried and true Lyman Sabot Slug loads.
Jack
I will be watching as well.
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I've only shot a handful of these, just enough to sight in the red dot on my saiga12 so i cant tell you what they group like out of the 17" barrel.
but they had a nice brisk recoil :)
i've since loaded the rest i had cast.The recipe i used is: winchester aa hull, 35g of 4756, a waa12r, and crimped not rolled as i read somewhere a roll crimp with these slugs can rip a petal off the wad causing poor accuracy, maybe a stiff overshot card would fix that if you want roll crimped.
Littlejack
Do a search here for fullbore slugs. You want to pursue that
course rather than the Lyman 525
Carryacolt, so do I.
I have not researched full bore slugs. The little bit of information that I have run across, states that bore leading will/may be a problem.
I have however bought a small lathe this last summer, and want to get a blank Lee mould block and cut a cavity with a better BC than the Lyman sabot slug. I would like to cut a cavity that would be more to a black powder paper patched design, with a non-tapered shank and round flat nose, and the diameter of the Lyman Sabot Slug. I could still use (the) wad, or a different wad to suit the load. I realize that the weight would be more than the Lyman. The only problem may be the length of the boolit and it's stability with the rifling twist in the Hastings barrel.
The original British paradox slug was fullbore diameter, short and squatty but it is (was) however designed for close in work for dangerous game. The paradox gun, (at least the one I read about) was smoothebore, except for the last few inches, to spin the paradox slug. The idea was to shoot shot loads, AND slug load efficiently. Very interesting concept. Something like a rifled choke.
The more things change, the more thay stay the same. Eh?
I have seen other slugs on this forum and others that resemble a truncated cone handgun slug. The taper at/towards the ogive was short, with what looked to be a straight shank. The slug itself also seemed short and squatty. Things just look out of proportion for the poor old 12 guage slug.
Any thoughts? Anybody?
Jack
Gunaholic:
I did find a load in my Lyman book for 30 grains of Herco with the WAA12 wad and the Lyman slug. The
loads sounds very close to your load of 35 grains 4756.
I loaded a few of them up yesterday. I am going to mount my scope today and run out to the range and give them a try. I will Chrony them some other time.
I will let you know how they shoot.
Jack
heres the load data i found on another forum, its from the lyman manual
Powder Charge Primer Wad Velocity Pressure
Federal Gold Medal
Univ. Clays 36.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1503 10,100
WSF 34.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1482 11,300
Herco 32.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1389 11,100
SR 4756 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1585 10,500
800X 31.5 Fed 209AWAA12 1459 10,700
Blue Dot 46.5 Win 209 WAA12R 1544 9,900
571 42.0 Fed 209AFed 12S4 1429 10,700
Federal Plastic Hunting
Univ. Clays 35.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1442 9,300
34.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1421 9,200
Herco 30.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1297 9,100
SR 4756 40.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1439 8,300
800X 30.0 Fed 209AFed 12S4 1403 9,800
Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1408 7,300
571 42.0 Fed 209AFed 12S4 1405 9,900
Fiocchi Plastic
Univ. Clays 34.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1478 10,100
WSF 31.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1383 10,000
SR 4756 37.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1396 8,700
N3SH 36.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1486 9,700
Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1476 8,800
Remington RTL (Premier)
Univ. Clays 29.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1386 10,800
Unique 23.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1269 11,100
Herco 25.0 Win 209 WAA12 1249 11,300
SR 4756 34.0 Rem 209PWAA12R 1448 11,100
SR 4756 35.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1462 10,900
Blue Dot 41.0 Rem 209PWAA12F114 1475 11,000
Blue Dot 43.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1501 11,200
Remington Unibody SP
Univ. Clays 32.0 Win 209 WAA12 1416 9,900
WSF 32.0 Win 209 WAA12 1434 11,400
Herco 30.0 Win 209 WAA12 1336 10,600
SR 4756 37.5 Win 209 WAA12F114 1468 10,200
800X 31.0 Win 209 Fed 12S3 1440 10,700
Blue Dot 45.5 Win 209 WAA12F114 1482 9,300
Blue Dot 46.0 Win 209 Fed 12S4 1532 10,600
Winchester AA
Univ. Clays 29.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1358 9,700
Unique 23.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1271 11,100
Unique 22.5 Win 209 Fed 12S3 1231 10,500
WSF 30.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1393 11,000
WSF 28.0 Win 209 Fed 12S3 1332 10,500
Herco 25.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1273 10,900
SR 4756 35.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1378 8,800
N3SH 30.0 Win 209 WAA12F114 1372 10,100
Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1474 9,200
gunoholic:
The load (30 grains of Herco w/WAA12 wad) under the Remington Unibody SP heading, is the load that I tried out this afternoon. I weighed the slugs, and the average of five was 508 grains. The alloy must be a little on the hard side.
I had to mount the scope, and away I went. I had loaded 8 rounds yesterday.
I started on 2x at 25 yards to get the scope sighted in. The first shot went 4" high from X, and 6" to the right. I started
kranking. The second shot went 2" high and 2" right. The third shot went into the 2" center circle.
I moved to the 50 yard line, and adjusted the scope to 4x.
First shot hit at 10 o'clock on the inside of the 2" circle. Second and third shots touching at 6 o'clock inside the 2" circle. 4Th shot cut the first hole at the top of the 2" circle. 5th shot touched the lower two shots making a perfect clover leif.
So, the 5 shot group was approximately 2" center to center. Thats not too bad considering the terrible trigger, not using a rear
sand bag, and the first load I've made up for the rifled Hastings barrell. I believe I am going to like slinging thes great big slugs.
Oh yea, the recoil was very tolerable.
Keep all the information comin fellas. Good loadin and shootin to you all.
Jack
Please keep the data coming. I just cast a bunch of these and haven't started loading anything yet. I'm glad to see this thread.
dn & lj, 12/17/12
Over the past couple of years I've tried to get a number of slugs to work in my smoothbore Remington 12 ga. Marine Magnum with a Leupold 2-8 scope. I've tried BPI's shuttlecock (450 grains) and Foster slugs (375 grains) and their Gualandi DGS slug with attached wad (491 grains). I also put a lot of time and work into the Lyman 525 grain slugs. I've tried many tricks that some posters here and at www.shotgunworld.com have used with some success. I've tried different hulls, powder loads, different crimps ( 6 pt, 8 pt, roll), different wads and shot cards(20 and 12 gauge). I've tried full length wads, and ones with the petals cut part way off and all the way off. The average groups were in the 4-6" range at 25 yards, clearly unacceptable for my short range pig hunting. The only exception were the Gualandi slugs which would shoot cloverleaf groups at both 25 and 50 yards (0.84" - 3" groups). Since these were expensive and had to come halfway around the world (Italy via BPI) to reach me I wanted something more available.
The answer was a fullbore slug. I slugged my barrel and ordered a semicustom slug mold from www.Accuratemolds, a 770 grain thumper with two conventional lube grooves. I ran this through a Savage rifled barrel made to fit the Remington 870 (amazingly it was a drop-in fit). After a lot of helpful advice from here and SGW I found a load that puts them into 1" groups at 25 yards with a velocity of 954 ft/second. I've only put it through one 120# male pig so far but it went in the right chest and out the other side leaving two great holes for blood trails. The pig just stopped and lay down. The shotgun bore has never shown any leading but there is some occasional unburned powder flakes in the barrel.
If you've found a load that gives consistent 2" groups at 50 yards with your Lyman 525 then you're ahead of many of us. Good luck.
merry Christmas- oldandslow
the first load I tried from the Data that Lyman supplied with their mould gave me 4" groups at 50 yards. I will check my records for the exact load, I know it was the old style WW-AA 2 3/4" cases, win red wad.
oldandslow:
Remember that I did shoot that group with a hastings rifled barrell. As I stated in my earlier post, I did not get acceptable results with my smoothbore barrell, and I figured I might as well just get a rifled barrell rather than get totally frustrated at trying to make all of the different balls, sabot's, powders and hulls work. Besides that, I think it was cheaper in the long run.
Merry Christmas to you also sir, and to the CastBoolits.
Jack
quast:
Thank you for your post. If you have find more information on that load, please let us know.
Jack
This load works well for me:
Rem STS hulls
Win 209 primer
WAA12F1114 or Claybuster clone wad
2/3rds of a 1/8 inch 20 guage card wad under the slug
Lyman 525 slug
22.0 grains of Unique
8 fold crimp
The card wad was cut to 2/3rds of its original length because I could get a better crimp with that rather than a full 1/8inch card wad. I also feel that the card wad will keep the slug from cutting into the F1114 wad and causing unstable separation downrange. Anyway it works for me. I get 2 inch groups at 50 yards and on a good day I can get 6 inch groups at 100 yards through my Mossberg 500 with rifle sights (cylinder bore).
I've shot this slug for quite a few years out of a 12g ultra slug hunter
2 3/4 federal gold medal hull
federal 12s4 wad
win 209 primer
45 grains blue dot
Back fill the slug cavity flush with hot melt glue this keep the wad from pushing up the backside and take a file and lay the slug on it side and knurl the edges this will grip the wad a little better for spin. this load will stay on a 3 inch dot at 100 yards. The only problem that I have is with plastic fouling after about 6 or 7 shot that starts to effect accuracy. These slug just hammer deer on a good chest shot it usually bang flop.
Another good load/info is the 3 inch here
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...t=peter&page=1
Shot some of these today using an old mossberg 500 with smooth bore 24" Slugster barrel--all loads 2 3/4" -- remington high brass 1/4" base wad shells, remington primer, 33.5 gr herco , DRA12114 wad. about a 8" group of 4 at 50 yards mv was 1418-1453
with new Fiocchi high brass shells fiocchi primer, 37 grains of longshot, Federal 12s4 wad. got the group down a few inches seemed a little better but it sure was no tack driver. mv was just over 1500 fps
this test was not very scientific but what i found was the slugs sit flat in the genuine federal wads and the slug did not seem to sit squarely in any other wads i have including waa12, waa12r, dra12f114 a down range duplicate of waa12f114, rp12 and rxp12.
i plan on figuring this out further through the summer maybe what is needed is a rifled barrel. any and all suggestions are appreciated
I have fiddled with some of these slugs and SR 4756 just to get a handle on velocities, haven't worried too much about accuracy yet, though it seemed promising. Point of impact was virtually the same with all charges. This data was collected out of a Rem 870 fully rifled 20" barrel. I understand that not everyone will appreciate the metric units:
Attachment 71788
I just tried this slug it shot like a dream, I used 31gr of Herco, trap commander wad in a 2 3/4" Cheddie hull, 870 remington fully rifled barrel bench rest 50yds, also 8 point crimp, anyone have any of these slugs for sale I would be interested. HC
Best Load: Hull=Winchester AA hull, Powder WSF=30 grains, Primer = Winchester 209, Wad Winchester WAA12F114 with a 20 gauge 1/8" shot card hot glued in wad cup. Hot glue shot card greatly increases accuracy, shoot at 100 yards. Shot several deer last several years, great load. Shot from Remington 1187 & 1100 rifled barrel. Pedal from wad do tear off. Spend several months trying different load. I roll crimp and 8 point crimp.
My Mossberg 500 seems to like the Lyman 525 with 42 gr of Blue dot in a Claybuster WAA12 replacement wad with a W209 primer. I have a rifled slug barrel on it. I havent had time to fully test it, but at 25 yards, I'm getting 3 shot cloverleafs less than 1 inch. I need to adjust the sights to that load then move back to 50 yards or further for more taesting, but it looks promising. BTW, the hulls are Rem unibodies with a star crimp.
I use the Lyman 525 hollow base slug a little.
Attachment 72680
Except mine weigh around 468-470 grains when cast from my Mono-type alloy. Because of this I used some of the data for the 475 grain Lyman slug instead.
I use older 2 3/4 Win AA hulls, and have also used Peters (Blue Magic) hulls, Win 209 primers, and both WAA12 and WAA12R red & white wads. The two loads I have used are 36.0 grains of Hercules Blue Dot, and 32.0 grains of Hercules Unique.
Unique 32.0 grains, Win 209, Win AA hull, Win WAA12 wad, Lyman 475 pure lead slug.
Blue Dot 36.0 grains, Win 209, Win AA hull, Win WAA12R wad, 12 pellets 00 Buck.
Both loads are from the Lyman Third Edition Shot shell Handbook 1984-1991.
The Blue Dot load is intended for 00 Buck, but I've used it for both buckshot and the Lyman slug.
I haven't put it on paper, or shot it past 50 yards. I use it for an inexpensive & mild slug practice load.
- Bullwolf
What alloys are you guys who load these generally using? I'm curious if softer or harder alloys work better.
I mold mine out of pure lead and use the following:
AA Hull
WAA12F114 Wad
209 primer
29 gr Univ Clays
I get about 4" @ 100 yards out of a Mossberg 695 and my Dad's H&R Ultra slug. I can't describe the devastation on deer and hogs. I haven't shot one end on, but it will not stay in a deer. I have 2 recovered from hogs and they are huge flat disks.
The 525 is an awesome slug!
I just used air cooled WW. They work fine for me. I also fill back end of slug with hot glue.
I just used air cooled WW. They work fine for me. I also fill back end of slug with hot glue. Also now use cheddite 3in hulls. They have a beefier base wad that hold up better under the pressure of this load. I shoot it out of a H/R ultra slugger
"I also fill back end of slug with hot glue", l thought l was the only one . But l use shoe goop. do it twice cause it shrinks a mite. TrippleA white wad, cardboard spacer and 24 gr. green dot.
This load works well for me:
Federal 12ga 2-3/4" new/primed/clear hull
Win 209 primer
WAA12 wad
1/8 inch 20 guage card wad under the slug
Lyman 525 slug
25.0 grains of Herco
8 fold crimp
Dead on from my Mossberg 500 with rifled barrel and scope.
Why fill the back of the slug if you're using a shotcup-type wad?
I'm just starting to try this slug with Fio. white 2-3/4" hulls 12s3 wad over blue dot, HS-6 & 4759.
Having to use 2-0.125" cards as shims to make a good fold crimp.
No accuracy testing yet just finding out what powders/charges will work with what I have on hand. Tried RL17 but can't get it to light.
"Why fill the back of the slug if you're using a shotcup-type wad?"
l Would have never admitted to doing it if someone else hadn't said they did it first. Long answer is this, spent a lot of time trying to outshoot the 100 yard novices with a shotgun, Yes I cheated some, Rifled barrel did better and a tube of mercury added in the stock dampened recoil some. Picture some 1,000 dollar plus gun whose owner can't hit the target getting to watch a guy shooting a 12 gauge next to him do it. Anyway what worked for me was goop filled slug (watch for air bubbles). Triple A hull(2 3/4),wad , white , also added a corrugated cardboard spacer under slug for added height. Now nowhere will you see this and I don't say its safe, just worked for me. the charge was , and 20 years later still is, 24 grains of green dot.
Short answer, Darn it was accurate. Problem I had is (in my opinion) shot guns have thin barrels and flex with heat. I could build a snake going up the target . it could be compensated for if you paid it mind. Plus side I got free range lead and green dot was cheap. I punched my spacers out with a 1/2 inch socket I ground to a bevel edge. Another answer could be heavy is better for elephants. When recovered those slugs still were filled with goop. It really is quite the fix it glue.
i spent
Used the 525 gr Lyman slug to harvest 5 whitetail.
Fired in a Rem Express pump with a screw on Hastings rifled choke tube.
Accuracy was about 3" at 50 yds and 6" at 100 yds. Zeroed at 100 and 3"-4" high at 50.
Beyond 100 yds accuracy and drop made me call it a 100 yard gun.
Iron sights fit to ventilated rib.
Winchester AA Blue Dot 44.0 Win 209 WAA12R 1474 9,200
Kicked hard, killed well.
32 gr Longshot, Grey Claybuster (7/8 oz AA clone) AA hull shoots; 3" at 80 yds, can hit gong at 165 yds w/ 30" of holdover. Can not hit large sheet of card board at 180 yds. They destabilized after 165 or so and flew into a 15 foot pattern. At this range they still made pretty good sized holes in the prairie grass root structure.
I would agree about a 100 yds for hunting.
Thanks Lon246. I have a 12G 870 Rem and a Hastings rifled choke I have never used. Now to use it.
Most of my use with the Lyman slug has been in the under barrel of a Bretta 12G. Also also used the 20G slug in the under barrel of a Browning Citori.
Both shot to the sight which in both cases which were Lyman 3mm light pipes. Maximun group size a 50 yds was 2 inches off a bench. Of course only the lower barrel in both cases would shoot(regulate) to the sights. The over barrel in both cases shot high and to the left and 2-3 inches high
and about the same left.
The 20G performed best on paper at 50yds as shots were cutting each other occasionally. Have not shot at longer ranges.
Both are used on hogs with buckshot in the over barrel.
Ive been casting and shooting this mold for years, mostly out of pump guns with great success.
current load is winchester w.209 primers
AA shells and WAA wads
with a charge of 36 grn blue dot powder
I just use a standard crimp.
Now there is a load that looks familiar.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-NEF-UltraSLug
Attachment 96129 This is what works for me.
Cheddie 2 3/4" Hull
trap commander wad from BPI
42.8grs of Blue dot
The target was 50yrds bench rest 870 with a 20" rifled barrel, bored sighted nikon scope. Good luck let us know how you do... HC Forgot to mention 6pt crimp.