Paper patching for extreme accuracy

I shoot benchrest plain base lead bullets at a range of 200 yards. Thw bullets are breech seated. I have begun to think about trying paper patched bullets for this game. I have paper patched bullets for .45-70 and .38-55 in the classical way. That is a damp patch rolled on, allowed to dry and then loaded into the case - no sizing.

My question is related to the diameter of the bullet before wrapping and how much sizing. My barrels land to land diameter is.321 and I shoot a grooved bullet of .322 diameter. What size should the bare bullet be before wrapping with .002 paper to wind up with a hard patch?

I usually size down .006"

I am unable to give specifics, however,
When I patch my .30s I size to .308, wrap with two wraps of notebook paper, then size to .309. They grow to .310 with the patch on. Makes a nice hard patch.
You will have to find a ratio for yours.
I knew "loose" .30s took .309 real well with jacketeds. I guessed at .309 and hit it real well.
The patch also sizes the casting when sized down.
That is my guess.

I size to bore diameter +.001/.0015 and patch to groove diameter +.001/.003, or as large as will fit the throat.

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Originally Posted by calaloo

What size should the bare bullet be before wrapping with .002 paper to wind up with a hard patch?

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Two wraps with your .002" paper should add .008" to the bullet, but it may be closer to .006". You should know since you have used it on .45's and .38's.
So, subtract .006" (or whatever it actually adds) from the desired final diameter (.322") and start with a naked bullet of about .316".
CM

That does sound about right, except I would finish at .323 rather than .322.
When I do my .303 Brit, I size to .308, then wrap, then size to .314. The final sizeing does down size the prime casting as well as consolidate the paper. It grows to .315 down the road due to spring back.
I am wondering if that is from final sizeing, or the nature of paper patching.
For those who do not final size, does the patched round grow?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by calaloo

I shoot benchrest plain base lead bullets at a range of 200 yards. Thw bullets are breech seated. I have begun to think about trying paper patched bullets for this game. I have paper patched bullets for .45-70 and .38-55 in the classical way. That is a damp patch rolled on, allowed to dry and then loaded into the case - no sizing.

My question is related to the diameter of the bullet before wrapping and how much sizing. My barrels land to land diameter is.321 and I shoot a grooved bullet of .322 diameter. What size should the bare bullet be before wrapping with .002 paper to wind up with a hard patch?

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It SOUNDS like you are shooting modern powder. If so, then the descriptions above are right on. Any black powder loads, though, follow a very different approach.
Zeek

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Originally Posted by docone31

For those who do not final size, does the patched round grow?

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I do not size...as a final step, or at any other stage.
My patched bullet diameter does not change after it is dry.

However, if I did size at some point after wrapping, removing any 'cushion' the paper may have, it might be that it would 'swell up' after awhile.
However, I don't actually know and probably never will.

CM

I did not think my wraps did grow in time.
I had 50 .30cal wraps awaiting me to load them. They sat for about a year.
They all grew to a .310 where I had sized them to .309. They fired the same as the .309s loaded and fired within a short time.
They did grow though.

Thanks for the replys. I am interested in trying bullets with the paper compressed untill it is hard. You all have given me a plase to start. Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by calaloo

Thanks for the replys. I am interested in trying bullets with the paper compressed untill it is hard. You all have given me a plase to start. Thanks.

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If you wrap wet with enough stretch on the paper it will be hard, and tight when dry. There are a few bullets I do this way. Just lube and load. most notably is the Lyman 451114. It drops .4515 and 2 wraps of 16# printer paper is perfect for my 45-70. I lube this one with a thin smear of BAC and load without sizing. Works great.

Pdawg makes an excellent case for wet wrapping ones patches, which Is what this BP shooter does for his 45-110's.

As for Extreme accuracy, my loads are now on good days when I am doing my part, running 1.160 inches at 200 yards in windy ole Wyoming.:holysheep Most Days I am able to post sub MOA groups with this rifle. This is with a Side hammer 1874 Sharps weighing in at 23.64 Lbs with a 6X MVA scope mounted on the big tube.

It is not the only 45-110 I can do this with. My Standard Creedmoor rifle weighs 14.6 lbs with scope mounted and Took top honors at the 5@200 Match At Raton in 2008, Measured Group size by the Officals was 1.336 inches. In NRA Long Range National Competition best Scores yet have been 96-4X at 800 yards. Thats Right 800 Yards. [smilie=w:

KW
The Lunger

Nice shooting Kenny.

I am very familiar with wet patching. I have been doing it for years. I am specifically interested in the type of paper patching that some members on this forum are doing. That is sizing the patched bullet so as to more or less iron the patch on the bullet.

Thanks for the replys.

Calaloo,

mine shrink very tight and are almost like armor on the bullet and no sizing is used. That was why I posted, wet patch and hot plate dried.

KW
The Lunger

It's always interesting to come here and watch round wheels be turned into squares!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kenny Wasserburger

Pdawg makes an excellent case for wet wrapping ones patches, which Is what this BP shooter does for his 45-110's.

As for Extreme accuracy, my loads are now on good days when I am doing my part, running 1.160 inches at 200 yards in windy ole Wyoming.:holysheep Most Days I am able to post sub MOA groups with this rifle. This is with a Side hammer 1874 Sharps weighing in at 23.64 Lbs with a 6X MVA scope mounted on the big tube.

It is not the only 45-110 I can do this with. My Standard Creedmoor rifle weighs 14.6 lbs with scope mounted and Took top honors at the 5@200 Match At Raton in 2008, Measured Group size by the Officals was 1.336 inches. In NRA Long Range National Competition best Scores yet have been 96-4X at 800 yards. Thats Right 800 Yards. [smilie=w:

KW
The Lunger

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I dream of one day shooting a Sharps that well! Is your chamber a standard Shiloh, or a custom chamber?

thanks,

Chris.

My idea would be to size the casting prior to patching, purely to eliminate minor variations from alloy differences anf variances in alloy and mold temperatures. Then to lightly size after patching to eliminate minor variance in patch thickness and all that so's I can load the largest and tightest possible fitting PPCBoo into my rifle chamber without the risk of getting boolit pulled out the case. Can't say it would make any difference down-range but it would make me feel good!;)

Thanks 303 Guy. The bullets will be swaged to the proper size. The finished bullet will be breech seated. I think I will wet patch so the bullet is .200 to .300 oversize then size to finished diameter. Thanks.

.200 to .300 may be a bit large to seat, me thinks.

I'm going to wrap .200 - .300 over and size to the proper diameter thus compressing the paper making a harder patch.

You are talking around 1/4 inch oversize here. Dont think that will work to good.

A wrap .200" oversize on a bullet with a finished diameter of .321"
Let's see... .200 + .321" = (ulp) ???

Give the Gentleman a break!:bigsmyl2: If only I never made typo's. [smilie=1: Reading back I see I hit wrong keys and leave out words altogether. :mrgreen:

On sizing to correct/optimum throat dimensions, I've given myself a whole set of challenges; I have seven Lee Endfields in 303 Brit and each one is different! So each one will end up with a different loading - alloy hardness, weight, size and shape. I'm gonna have heaps of fun!:mrgreen:

Of course I meant .002 - .003. I'll post results when I get the dies made and the bullet tested. Thanks again for the suggestions.