7.62x53R Finnish Mosins

Recently I have purchased a few new Finnish Mosins that I was able to get for a right price. 1942 M91 Tika, M27 Tika, and M28/30 Sako. All of these have the .308-.3085 grove diameter so using 308 jacketed is the way to go. Basically I have been seeing a lot of contradictory information out there on what these guns used for bullet weights. I have the fantastic "Finnish Mosin Nagant" by Matt Di Risio and he mentions in there that 7.62x53R was pretty much a dead ringer for the 1905 Russian 7.62x54R. I take it he means the bullet weight (148 grain BT) and ballistics, because the Finns prior to the M39 were using .308. I also have been seeing that this cartridge used a D49 projectile which was around 180 grains or so.

I'm just a little confused on what Finland really used in these guns prior to the M39, which we know uses the standard Russian ammo, and all D166. What were these rifles sighted in with and issued? I am leaning on using 150 grain or so projectile. Also when casting I may go with a lighter boolit rather than something in the 314-299 class of bore riders. Anybody with knowledge on the Finns have anything to add?

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Originally Posted by Eddie1971

Recently I have purchased a few new Finnish Mosins that I was able to get for a right price. 1942 M91 Tika, M27 Tika, and M28/30 Sako. All of these have the .308-.3085 grove diameter so using 308 jacketed is the way to go. Basically I have been seeing a lot of contradictory information out there on what these guns used for bullet weights. I have the fantastic "Finnish Mosin Nagant" by Matt Di Risio and he mentions in there that 7.62x53R was pretty much a dead ringer for the 1905 Russian 7.62x54R. I take it he means the bullet weight (148 grain BT) and ballistics, because the Finns prior to the M39 were using .308. I also have been seeing that this cartridge used a D49 projectile which was around 180 grains or so.

I'm just a little confused on what Finland really used in these guns prior to the M39, which we know uses the standard Russian ammo, and all D166. What were these rifles sighted in with and issued? I am leaning on using 150 grain or so projectile. Also when casting I may go with a lighter boolit rather than something in the 314-299 class of bore riders. Anybody with knowledge on the Finns have anything to add?

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They probably used WWI era Russian ammo which I think is about a 148gr flat or open base bullet most likely simular to the Tula made 7.62x54R. They may of also used heavy ball too.. you would need to do some research on when the finish started production of ammunition or what they purchased.

My 28/30, dated 1936, SAKO shot better than I could, using 168gr SMK. 150gr Hornady's shot very well, also. I purchased Lapua 7.62x53R brass for the correct headstamp, so as I could keep my MN ammo separated. Thr RCBS dies come with two decap/expanders, so as One can load either caliber.

The Finn M91 (Russian capture, not rebuilt) had a groove diameter of .3115. My M39 SAKO has a .3105 groove diameter.

I chronographed/pressure tested and shot a bit of VPT 41 "L" ammunition (149 gr FMJ at .3105) using the M39. Velocity ran 2817 fps and the psi (M43) was 41,300.

I also chronographed some VPT 44 "D" ammunition (167 gr FMJ at .311) using the M39. Velocity ran 2554 fps with the psi at 38,100.

Russian "L" (149 FMJ at .3105) ran 2744 fps at a psi of 40,800. Russian "D" (180 gr FNJBT at .311) ran 2545 fps at a psi of 44,900.

BTW, the only difference between 7.62x53R and 7.62x54R cartridges is one says "53" and the other says "54".

The 7.62x53R uses a .308" projectile, where-as the 7.62x54R uses a 3-line, or .311", projectile. The 7.62x53R is the correct cartridge designation for the 28/30 Finnish Civil Guard rifles.

Both my M 28\30 rifles shoot the .311-150 gr. just great
They also prefer the 198 cast boolits.
My other Finnish 1891 likes a littler heavier jacketed bullet like the 180 gr.
But it shoots the 314-299 cast boolit sized to .312 very well.
I also Powder Coat the cast boolits.

Your prerogative, sir, but I will be respectful to my 28/30 and save the .311 jacketed rounds for something more suitable.

It's been 15 years since I shot a Finn rifle , but you really need to slug your bore to figure out what you need to shoot. Most of mine slugged .309 and shot a .310 diameter lead bullet in the 200 gr area. Russian guns were fond of 200gr bullets usually sized .314. Again, I slugged the russians before settling on bullet diameters.

BTW, I never found surplus ammo to shoot worth a hoot out of any of them.

I concur on slugging: my Sweetie slugged out at .308 and small change.

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Originally Posted by challenger_i

The 7.62x53R uses a .308" projectile, where-as the 7.62x54R uses a 3-line, or .311", projectile. The 7.62x53R is the correct cartridge designation for the 28/30 Finnish Civil Guard rifles.

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Unless the barrel has a "D" stamped on it meaning it was rechambered by the Finns with the intent to use Russian 7.62x54R ammunition.

Mine has no "D", and, oddly, no SA in square (Finnish Army Acceptance). In the condition it is in, I would swear it spent its life hid in the back of some guardsman's closet.

I imagine the Finns sent a lot of "borrowed" Russian ammo back to the original owners, with interest.

But I know the guns like the "299"bullet pattern, of which I bought the 311, 314, and 316 versions from NOE to cover as many milsurp bases as possible. I just checked the box for my M39 loads, and I selected the 311 version (which has a .300" nose" for that one, and ran it through a .312" sizer. 31.1 grains of 4198 has it going a skosh under 2100 fps.

I took a similar approach with the .303 British - the 299's in the various diameters roughly approximate the pre-spitzer bullet weights and can be thrown at about the same speeds as those earlier loads. Yes, you have to crank up to about 300 yards on the sight to get a 100 yard zero, but it's "service power" ammo.

The M91's I have are Finn rebuilt and are .3085 groove. They are D marked same with M28/30 but that only means throat was reamed to chamber D rounds. Kind of like the S stamp on G88's. I loaded some different rounds and I'll see what they like best. Then it will be Sweets treatment and on to cast!

My M39 does this [shooting for score at 100 yards during CBA match in Phoenix] with a 314299 (#2 alloy) over 28.5 gr IMR 4895 w/dacron filler.

Attachment 323533Attachment 323534

Attachment 323535

That's some fine shooting Larry. My most accurate military rifle out of the dozens I have owned, handloaded for and shot was an M39 with Sako barrel.

The bottom line is, the Finns knew how to make a Mosin Nagant sing for its supper! :)

I have 3 M39’s: VKT, Sako SkY, & a 1968. Also a M28/30, the third one made once the design was finalized. The M28/30 was issued to the civil guard unit where the Battle of Raate Road took place in the Winter War.

I’ve never slugged the bores. All like 16.0 gr 2400 and the Lyman 314299. Sized .314 or .315”, it doesn’t matter. Oal enough to just allow the round to chamber without jamming into the rifling…it varies a little depending upon the wear of the rifling. Brass is separated by rifle and neck sized only. Per my throat erosion gages, my cast bullet loads are producing no bore wear.

This site has about anything you want to know about 7.62x54R military ammo. My quick perusal didn't reveal any Finnish military ammo, but it may be there and I just missed it. There is information on 1940s Russian ammo, which is probably similar to what the Finns captured and used. https://www.igun.cz/MosinID/MosinAmmo.htm

I used to see Finn surplus ammo 20 to 25 years ago at gunshows. They used Nickle plated bullets on all the stuff I saw.

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Originally Posted by challenger_i

The 7.62x53R uses a .308" projectile, where-as the 7.62x54R uses a 3-line, or .311", projectile. The 7.62x53R is the correct cartridge designation for the 28/30 Finnish Civil Guard rifles.

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I was referring to the cartridge cases, there is no difference between them. As mentioned, slugging the bore of the rifles will tell what bullet diameter will be best to use.

Never shot cast in mine , I have 8 or 9 standard m39's , 2 straight stocks and 2 m28's . All shoot best with 200 grain Lapua Scenars or same weight in Match Kings . They also shoot the 180 grain bullets awfully well . I used N550 and shot them reasonably warm. Almost all shot to the sights with both bullets at 100 yards which is why I stuck with them. I could look up the charge weight and post it but it's best to work it out for your self in your particular rifle as what I ended up with would be considered somewhat hot being slightly over listed maximum . That said , all of mine shot best with exactly the same load and that includes the 10 or so m39's that I sold off years ago when I decided to keep only the Civil Guard SKY marked rifles. I did try some 220 grain .308 bullets but they only produced mediocre results. I am probably gonna sell or trade most of what I have left before too long so they might end up in the classified section. Probably will keep the two straight stocks and the best m28 since I do still like shooting them some.

Finn m/1891. Has original Russian one piece stock, new B barrel. Came from Finland with no handguard (as it came from the importer as such).

First time I threw some cast bullet handloads through it produced 5 shots into 1 hole at 50yds. And that was with moderate level Unique and 311299 .311". I'll work more with this rifle after I get done working with some other of my Mausers. The "B" barrels are said to be Belgium made. While all of this type are dated 1942 its been said these were rebarreled post-war and put into storage. I am very fond of this rifle.

https://images34.fotki.com/v1426/pho...42/yr30-vi.jpg

https://images15.fotki.com/v1664/pho...42/yr31-vi.jpg

https://images12.fotki.com/v1677/pho...42/yr32-vi.jpg

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Originally Posted by Dutchman

Finn m/1891. Has original Russian one piece stock, new B barrel. Came from Finland with no handguard (as it came from the importer as such).

First time I threw some cast bullet handloads through it produced 5 shots into 1 hole at 50yds. And that was with moderate level Unique and 311299 .311". I'll work more with this rifle after I get done working with some other of my Mausers. The "B" barrels are said to be Belgium made. While all of this type are dated 1942 its been said these were rebarreled post-war and put into storage. I am very fond of this rifle.

https://images34.fotki.com/v1426/pho...42/yr30-vi.jpg

https://images15.fotki.com/v1664/pho...42/yr31-vi.jpg

https://images12.fotki.com/v1677/pho...42/yr32-vi.jpg

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Dutchman I've seen you post that gem in the past. Love it. I just scooped up two of them the last year. One of them on a Chatellerault receiver. I have to say, out of all my recent acquisitions, the M91's and the M28/30 have been amazing. The one disappointment has been a Tikka M27. With j words and cast it been not so hot. Makes no sense because it's in near mint shape. The M28/30 has seen some use and it shoots circles around the M27.