My fix for a bad trigger on a CVA Pistol

Last fall I purchased a nice used CVA Kentucky percussion pistol in .45 cal.. The pistol shoots very well but the factory trigger is terrible! I never measured the trigger pull on it but it had to be 15 pounds or more. After showing the pistol to Waksupi at a rendezvous last fall and discussing what could be done about it I decided to try reworking the trigger myself.

After disassembling the pistol it was obvious why the pistol had such a hard trigger pull. When you look at the geometry of the original trigger design there is no mechanical advantage built into the trigger at all. The original trigger consists of a base plate, brass trigger, steel dowel pin and a claw shaped "keeper" that attaches to the inside of the trigger plate with a screw. Below is the original trigger group:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...ps541b8bf6.jpg

The next two pictures show the measurements of the trigger as pinned originally:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...ps48e0bc17.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...pse592d861.jpg

I stripped the trigger plate bare and made a cardboard pattern to test dimensions with. Using some scrap 1/8" mild steel I cut out a new trigger. After some clean up and shaping with a file and a bit of forging on the anvil to flatten the trigger shoe I had a fair trigger made. I used a piece of a finishing nail for the new pin.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...ps9b15a955.jpg

Now all I needed to do was assemble it. I had used the pivot point of the locks sear bar as my location for my new trigger pin so drilling that hole was pretty easy to locate as the stock had a faint mark where the pivot screw lightly touch the lock mortise. I used a drill bit slightly smaller than the diameter of the finishing nail pin. Here is the final assembly of my new trigger:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...ps9f42cd18.jpg

I don't have a trigger pull scale but I would guess the trigger pull on the new trigger is somewhere between 2 and 3 lbs. A huge help and a pleasure to shoot now!

So, if you have a CVA with a similar trigger setup don't give up, they can be fixed with just a few hand tools.

Good pictures and description of the problem, and the solution. I hope others pay attention, and upgrade their triggers.

Thanks I now have a project before hunting season.
This is sticky material.

I have one to fix as well. Not a CVA but one of the early imports, problem made by the same people that made the CVA imports. Mine says Hopkins & Allen on it. It was sold at JC Pennys back in 74. Good fix though and write up. Mine I'll be too is at least 15# or maybe closer to 20.

I have a Hopkins and Allen turn barrel with the same problem. Going to take it apart and see it it is the same problem.

Good Job!

You not only introduced some mechanical advantage, but also eliminated the usual scrubbing between the trigger bar and sear arm by placing the trigger pivot in line with the sear arm pivot. That's something for all builders (of anything) to keep in mind.

Something else that's very clear in the close-up photo of the wood. The wood was finished at the factory with the metal bits removed, resulting in the edges of the lock mortise (and other inlay cuts) being rounded over from the sanding and steel wool, etc. Whether re-finishing a factory gun, building a kit or doing a scratch build, if you want a really crisp metal to wood fit, you ALWAYS do ALL your wood finishing with the metal parts in place. Metal and wood finished together. The very last thing you do is remove the metal for blueing or browning.

Did the trigger bar at rest height change?
I would like to do this same thing using this trigger blank but I am unsure of this part thank you http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/08/ugujageg.jpg

I went for it I took a little to much off the trigger and it moves forward more than I would like but it's so much better now to just buy a new sear so I have a more positive engagement..

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/11/y9ytanu4.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/11/5yhejype.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/11/7ygypy5a.jpg

I used a thin piece of cardboard as a model to check the fit before I modified the new trigger. I'm not sure I understand your issue but I'd think another new trigger blank would be cheaper than a new sear.

The sear is all beat up and angled from being dry fired 100s of times by the first owner and it catching on the half cock position of the tumbler.. It didint have anything to do with the new trigger I guess I was just saying ;-)

Thanks for the cool idea!

Very interesting, thank you for sharing your experience.

Am I correct that your trigger is not connected to the original metal trigger plate? It appears the pin goes through the hardwood and trigger only?

Have you shot it much since the mod? I'm curious how it has held up, no walking of the pin/wood fit? I would think the hardwood should hold up well enough.

any chance i could get a "cardboard templet" of your modified trigger ?

I sold the pistol yes, it worked well. Dixie gun works has these blanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gordie

any chance i could get a "cardboard templet" of your modified trigger ?

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Gordie, they will all be slightly different, as you need to trim the contact surface so there is a slight amount of free play between the trigger and sear bar.

Triggers that are wood mounted are, and were very common. I have built well over 100 guns with them so mounted, with no problems.

thanks for the reply...

i think i'll check DGW for a trigger to "practice" on... :)

Now I have a new project for my two CVA's. I am assuming that the trigger is the same on the flintlocks?

Yep...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dean D.

Last fall I purchased a nice used CVA Kentucky percussion pistol in .45 cal.. The pistol shoots very well but the factory trigger is terrible! I never measured the trigger pull on it but it had to be 15 pounds or more. After showing the pistol to Waksupi at a rendezvous last fall and discussing what could be done about it I decided to try reworking the trigger myself.

After disassembling the pistol it was obvious why the pistol had such a hard trigger pull. When you look at the geometry of the original trigger design there is no mechanical advantage built into the trigger at all. The original trigger consists of a base plate, brass trigger, steel dowel pin and a claw shaped "keeper" that attaches to the inside of the trigger plate with a screw. Below is the original trigger group:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...ps541b8bf6.jpg

The next two pictures show the measurements of the trigger as pinned originally:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...ps48e0bc17.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...pse592d861.jpg

I stripped the trigger plate bare and made a cardboard pattern to test dimensions with. Using some scrap 1/8" mild steel I cut out a new trigger. After some clean up and shaping with a file and a bit of forging on the anvil to flatten the trigger shoe I had a fair trigger made. I used a piece of a finishing nail for the new pin.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...ps9b15a955.jpg

Now all I needed to do was assemble it. I had used the pivot point of the locks sear bar as my location for my new trigger pin so drilling that hole was pretty easy to locate as the stock had a faint mark where the pivot screw lightly touch the lock mortise. I used a drill bit slightly smaller than the diameter of the finishing nail pin. Here is the final assembly of my new trigger:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...ps9f42cd18.jpg

I don't have a trigger pull scale but I would guess the trigger pull on the new trigger is somewhere between 2 and 3 lbs. A huge help and a pleasure to shoot now!

So, if you have a CVA with a similar trigger setup don't give up, they can be fixed with just a few hand tools.

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Very well done post we need more like it thanks

Yep I know it's a old post,but the information is still good.

Yep good info right here

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

Dean D, Do you have any pictures of the assembly put back together but outside of the gun? And compared to the old trigger.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasquatch-1

Dean D, Do you have any pictures of the assembly put back together but outside of the gun? And compared to the old trigger.

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That isn't possible with this conversion. The trigger and guard are now entirely separate.

Fantastic job.i plan on reworking the trigger on my old Cva... This helped a lot. Currently my trigger has a lot of play and sits far back. I never thought of just recutting the back

That's a lot of work for something that can be fixed by a $12 adjustable tumbler.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrontierMuzzleloading

That's a lot of work for something that can be fixed by a $12 adjustable tumbler.

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Guess it depends on if you want to spend money or not. I have done enough of these conversions over the years, I can do it in under an hour, and not have a mechanical part that can fail. Not to mention you would play hell trying to find an adjustable tumbler for most locks. Better to do it right, rather than half assed.

When I first looked at your trigger I missed the obvious change in geometry.

I have one I have not shot in a long time because of the trigger. I'm thinking that first I am just going to move the pivot point back and get some/enough mechanical advantage by the fulcrum principle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TCLouis

When I first looked at your trigger I missed the obvious change in geometry.

I have one I have not shot in a long time because of the trigger. I'm thinking that first I am just going to move the pivot point back and get some/enough mechanical advantage by the fulcrum principle.

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That will not solve the problem.The pivot MUST go higher.

great write up and pictorial. it raises a bunch of more questions for me and other firearms. fantastic. THANKS.

This is a really old thread but in case someone comes to visit - heres another CVA fix -
They made what I call long sear and short sear locks - I have fixed several of the long sear ones - they are just poor design and what happens is the long flimsy toe of the sear bends and gets to snagging up in the half cock notch - the lock malfunctions and if the shooter persists with it breaks the end off the sear. Take the lock apart and put the sear in a vice clean it down and use an oxy welding torch to first bend the sear tip back to its correct position then while its still hot fill the curve from nose of sear back to the boss around the mounting screw hole with brass filler rod - once its cooled out you then fit the reinforced sear until it just has clearance around the tumbler - that will take a little work but once its done that sear should last a good while - I have rescued several of these wrecked long sear locks (dont know why they built them like it - they also made a short sear model that works ok) - my picture is a closeup of the sear and tumbler / bridle of a CVA missouri / hawken - shouAttachment 196220ld be able to see the join between brass filler and the original steel.
Joe

Nice work reducing the trigger pull ! Thanks for sharing .

Boaz ---maybe I didnt explain this well - its not about reducing trigger pull!! - this is a repair fix for a stuffed CVA lock - the end of that long sear bends until it interferes with the mechanism and catches in the half cock notch as the lock fires - either fix it before it breaks completely or buy a new replacement lock from L & R (U$180) - if you go back and study Beroen's pictures you can see the sear on that lock is already started to bend upwards - its a cheaper lock for single trigger and has no bridle to hold the parts in alignment - there is a small screw above the sear notch that serves to reduce sear engagement and lighten the trigger pull (some fellers have not figured that out) - for double set trigger you must have a fly in the tumbler. My fix is to repair the bent sear and reinforce it with extra metal so it dont bend again - then the repair is contoured to just clear the tumbler as it rotates - no effect on trigger pull.

Can you post pictures again, they are gone!
Thanks
Nit Wit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nit Wit

Can you post pictures again, they are gone!
Thanks
Nit Wit

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My pictures below
Go to Beroen's post no 8 for pics of the pistol


can see how the sear assembly is straight /flat on the bottom after the repair and can see the join line where brass filler was used
Attachment 242633

In this pic of the pistol lock can see where the sear nose has already started to bend upwards - wont be long before that one breaks or needs my fix doing

Attachment 242634

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freightman

Thanks I now have a project before hunting season.
This is sticky material.

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Think you could shrink the pictures and post them here? Photo-junk it doesn’t show the pics.